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Bill Kropp
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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #35 - Jun 5th, 2012 at 12:51am
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sigh. you guys forget that max active should never be an absolute, as many advantages dont directly affect dmg in any way- Aff Desolid, reduced end, indirect, etc. Plus any area effect attack is going to be incapable of puncturing avg def (6d6 ae vs 12d6)
  
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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #36 - Jun 5th, 2012 at 12:52am
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but anyhoo Champs and v&v both rule in different ways. if you must villify a system, I say screw GURPS Supers! lol
  
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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #37 - Jun 5th, 2012 at 1:38am
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I never said there was anything wrong with Hero System. I really enjoy it when I get to play it, although I think it got more rules-lawyery as time went on, with (I guess) Steve Long's need to quantify every little thing, which opened the door to the min-maxers even wider. It's the players I tend to have difficulty with. Huge generalization, but my experience has been that the system brings out the worst in players who lean towards the "how much power can I get without technically cheating" school of playing.

I really liked the game itself when it was simply "Champions." Especially 2nd to 4th editions, particularly 2nd. I prefer V&V now because it doesn't try to quantify everything but leaves a great deal to player-GM agreement. I like having a complete game in 50 pages vs. 2 textbooks weighing 10 lbs. each.
  
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Bill Kropp
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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #38 - Jun 5th, 2012 at 4:37am
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it depends on how much you want to have to make up rules on your own, i suppose. i enjoy both.
  
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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #39 - Jun 11th, 2012 at 7:47pm
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I'll be posting my revised skill system in a bit, along with some other minor tweaks.
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #40 - Jun 13th, 2012 at 5:38pm
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One question for Skills, Dom.  If your BC is under 11, do you subtract 3% for each number under?

So if one has a 7, the base chance would be 58%?
  
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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #41 - Jun 13th, 2012 at 8:35pm
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Uhm... is the new skill system posted somewhere?
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #42 - Jun 15th, 2012 at 2:32pm
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Thunderbolt wrote on Jun 13th, 2012 at 8:35pm:
Uhm... is the new skill system posted somewhere?


Running behind do to work, it will be up this weekend, along with some new powers I worked up, and a couple I stole...err, borrowed (yeah that sounds better) from John. Just give me a bit as I've got a pile of stuff that I got hit with at work, including helping to organize an "Emergency Preparedness Fair" in four weeks.
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #43 - Jun 15th, 2012 at 5:38pm
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No worries, Dom.  Take your time.  R/L always comes first!  Smiley
  
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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #44 - Jun 15th, 2012 at 8:27pm
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I'm working on some stuff right now that I want to post before I go to bed to tonight, so you guys have the weekend to read over it.
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #45 - Jun 16th, 2012 at 6:19pm
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OK, I'm almost finished with the skill document, I'll post as a PDF attachment for you guys to read over. Please let me know if you spot any typos, and more importantly, if it makes sense. Once that's up, I'll get cracking on an overview of what's happened so far. I hope it'll answer any questions about what's transpired up to this point.
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #46 - Jun 19th, 2012 at 9:27am
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ETA Skill list and mechanics?
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #47 - Jul 11th, 2012 at 1:32am
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OK gents, I finally got off my butt and got cranking on the long promised skill system. I completely scrapped what I originally planned and went with a modified version of the D20 system. I'll have to do a quick rework on the last character sheet I posted to bring it into line. Basically you'll get a bonus for your ability score, and any training you undertake.

DC rolls will be based on how hard I think a particular task is to preform.

Simple
Easy
Routine
Average
Challenging
Difficult
Extremely Difficult
Almost Impossible

I'll post the tables in few minutes.
« Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2012 at 1:37am by dsumner »  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #48 - Jul 11th, 2012 at 1:56am
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Skills

Every task requires a saving throw against the character’s Intelligence, Agility, or Charisma save number, as determined by the GM. Difficulty modifiers and characteristic bonus (see below) may also apply. Tasks are categorized into one of the following categories:

Simple +10
Easy +5
Routine +3
Average +0
Challenging -3
Difficult -5
Extremely Difficult -10
Almost Impossible -15

A natural roll of 1 is always a failure, and a natural 20 is always a success.

Basic Ability Score      Modifier
1-3                  -3
4-6                  -2
7-9                  -1
10-12                  +0
13-15                  +1
16-18                  +2
19-21                  +3
22-24                  +4
25-27                  +5
28-30                  +6
31-33                  +7
34-36                  +8
37-39                  +9
40-42                  +10
43-45                  +11
46-48                  +12
Etc.

Training - PCs may choose to train in a specific skill, such as accuracy, granting them a +1 bonus per level.
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #49 - Jul 11th, 2012 at 8:23am
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dsumner wrote on Jul 11th, 2012 at 1:56am:
Training - PCs may choose to train in a specific skill, such as accuracy, granting them a +1 bonus per level.

Just for clarification.
The +1 bonus per level would be to the characters AGL skill roll, that then grants the +1 to hit, or is it an additional +1 to hit after the character passes the AGL skill roll.

My money is on the former of the two but wanted to be sure  Smiley
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #50 - Jul 11th, 2012 at 11:59am
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Ranger wrote on Jul 11th, 2012 at 8:23am:
dsumner wrote on Jul 11th, 2012 at 1:56am:
Training - PCs may choose to train in a specific skill, such as accuracy, granting them a +1 bonus per level.

Just for clarification.
The +1 bonus per level would be to the characters AGL skill roll, that then grants the +1 to hit, or is it an additional +1 to hit after the character passes the AGL skill roll.

My money is on the former of the two but wanted to be sure  Smiley


It's a +1 to the skill roll.
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #51 - Jul 13th, 2012 at 7:57pm
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So there are NO skill ranks?  You get a number of skills equal to your intelligence score and effectively have 1 rank in those skills plus your stat modifier and level if you train that particular skill?

Can you choose to pick a skill twice and effectively add a second rank when you choose your skills?
« Last Edit: Jul 13th, 2012 at 7:58pm by Thunderbolt »  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #52 - Jul 13th, 2012 at 9:14pm
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Thunderbolt wrote on Jul 13th, 2012 at 7:57pm:
So there are NO skill ranks?  You get a number of skills equal to your intelligence score and effectively have 1 rank in those skills plus your stat modifier and level if you train that particular skill?


At the moment no. But I may tinker with it adding more generic skill ranks like Novice, Expert, Master, but that's up in the air.

Thunderbolt wrote on Jul 13th, 2012 at 7:57pm:
Can you choose to pick a skill twice and effectively add a second rank when you choose your skills?


Hmm...I hadn't thought about that. I'll get back to you.
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #53 - Jul 13th, 2012 at 9:39pm
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dsumner wrote on Jul 13th, 2012 at 9:14pm:
Thunderbolt wrote on Jul 13th, 2012 at 7:57pm:
So there are NO skill ranks?  You get a number of skills equal to your intelligence score and effectively have 1 rank in those skills plus your stat modifier and level if you train that particular skill?


At the moment no. But I may tinker with it adding more generic skill ranks like Novice, Expert, Master, but that's up in the air.

Thunderbolt wrote on Jul 13th, 2012 at 7:57pm:
Can you choose to pick a skill twice and effectively add a second rank when you choose your skills?


Hmm...I hadn't thought about that. I'll get back to you.


Ok.  Don't worry overmuch about it... Thunderbolt only has a intelligence of 14 and will NOT be doubling up any skills.  You current character sheet does not really give any good room for listing the skill and the skill modifier.

Thunderbolt would have...

1. Area Kno {Empire City} - {Int} +1rk, +2Int = +3
2. Driving - {Dex} +1rk, +3Dex = +4
3. Firearms - {Dex/Int?} +1rk, +2Int/+3Dex = +3/+4      
4. Investigation - {Int} +1rk, +2Int = +3
5. Kno {Criminology} - {Int} +1rk, +2Int = +3
6. Kno {Martial Arts} - {Int} +1rk, +2Int = +3
7. Kno {Underworld/Crime} - {Int} +1rk, +2Int = +3
8. Language {Italian} - {Int} +1rk, +2Int = +3
9. Language {Japanesse} - {Int} +1rk, +2Int = +3
10. Mechanic - {Int} +1rk, +2Int = +3
11. Observation - {Int} +1rk, +2Int = +3
12. Profession {Mechanic} - {Int} +1rk, +2Int = +3
13. Streetwise - {Int} +1rk, +2Int = +3
14. Stealth - {Dex} +1rk, +3Dex = +4

Is this what you had in mind?

Also.. how does the observation skill work now that your no longer doing a 100% system?  Does it add to your perception roll or does it replace your perception roll?

And what do skills like firearms do?  Is it the use of firearms or is it the knowledge of firearm lore?  Its not the ability to attack with firearms that covered by a basic attack right?

Does a rank in a language mean you can speak it fluently or do you need skill checks to speak it properly?
« Last Edit: Jul 13th, 2012 at 9:42pm by Thunderbolt »  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #54 - Jul 13th, 2012 at 9:59pm
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Thunderbolt wrote on Jul 13th, 2012 at 9:39pm:
Is this what you had in mind?


Yes.

Thunderbolt wrote on Jul 13th, 2012 at 9:39pm:
It'll grant you a bonus on your perception roll based on how difficult I think something is to spot. If you flying along looking for a car on the highway, it's going to be much easier to spot, than look for a spent shell casing in the middle of corn field.

[quote author=393F243A22252F2423324A0 link=1255049764/53#53 date=1342229965]And what do skills like firearms do?  Is it the use of firearms or is it the knowledge of firearm lore?  Its not the ability to attack with firearms that covered by a basic attack right?


It gives you knowledge of how they operate, how to perform basic maintenance on them, etc. Training in Accuracy will give you a "to hit" bonus for attacks.

Thunderbolt wrote on Jul 13th, 2012 at 9:39pm:
Does a rank in a language mean you can speak it fluently or do you need skill checks to speak it properly?


For game purposes, you can speak read, and write a language fluently, as I'm not trying to get into to many details, as that's not how it works in the comics.
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #55 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 5:18pm
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I'm sorry, I'm a little bit confused. A task has both a difficulty(Target number) and a difficulty category (Easy, hard, etc)?
It's been a long week (month, really).

  
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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #56 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 5:36pm
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Lord Inar wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 5:18pm:
I'm sorry, I'm a little bit confused. A task has both a difficulty(Target number) and a difficulty category (Easy, hard, etc)?
It's been a long week (month, really).




I'll try to explain...correct me if I'm wrong here Dom.

You get one rank {a +1} in a skill you select from the number of skills equal to your Intelligence.

When you make a skill check its the skills appropriate stat for the skill you are rolling against...

.... .... !

Ulp.. hey wait a minute!  Dom your skill system is based on a Up is good...1 is a natural failure and 20 an automatic success...

That's opposite of the V&V convention you know?  It just occurred to me... when you attack with a power the higher your save to hit with it the easier it is to roll under the number hence why bonuses to hit increase your number to hit making it easier to roll under.  Pluses to hit do not actually add to your roll as that would make it harder to roll under your target number.

That would mean the higher your stat... the easier it is to succeed if you must roll under it.  Your ranks and stat modifier increase your overall stat so its easier to roll under it.

I think you got it reverse in your above rules.

-----

Now purely talking game system conventions...I'd prefer a roll up and add bonuses on top convention... that's the same dice convention as 3rd Edition D&D!  I never really like systems where you had to roll under a number...but its a major convention in the V&V system. 

I don't have any of the new reprinted rules to know if their system has been updated... I doubt it as it would make most of their previous npcs and villains not usable without major conversion.

BESM {Big Eyes, Small Mouth} by Guardians of Order had a similar convention of roll under in their 1st and 2nd edition rules but bit the bullet and converted their 3rd edition rule to a roll up and add high total wins convention.
« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2012 at 5:38pm by Thunderbolt »  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #57 - Jul 28th, 2012 at 4:17pm
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If you wanted to make it a roll under system just make each category the target number by adding 10 to it. The bonus from the stat would then be added to the number needed. (That gives a roughly 50% success rate for a person of average intelligence performing an average task)

E.g., Diesel is attempting a difficult Mechanical engineering task. The target number is 5, Diesel gets a +6 for his Int bonus (Int = 30) and an additional +1 because he's trained in it. Thus he needs to rolls a 12 or less to perform the task.

Would this work?
  
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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #58 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 3:23am
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Rampart...

Ok. Neat character!!!  Love the Pic... "No Capes!" Smiley

But some questions.. some of his skills seem s bit...vague?

1. Aerospace Engineering  {Shouldn't this be Science: A. E. ?}
2. Military Studies  {Is this a knowledge Skill or a perk?}
3. US Air Force  {Same with this... a Knowledge of that organization and it procedures or a Perk Denoting affiliation with that organization as in Favors or contacts?}

7. Command { Same here is this a knowledge of Historical commanders, commanding techniques... or a Perk indicating the possession of a military command position?}
8. Leadership {This skill is straight forward but what does it mean if he has the Command perk/skill... not saying this unneeded just that perhaps a little more definition...mainly of the command skill is required}

13. Know: STOP Operations & 14. Know: BSI Operations {Both of these skills a pretty specific...but could be covered under one skill such as for instance Know: Law Enforcement Protocol and Procedures or a Perk: High Security Clearance depending upon the direction you want them to define for the character.}

Just saying... the skills each character possesses are limited in number ...best to get the most mileage out of them that one can by having them clearly defined.  We do not get more skills very quickly.

Otherwise AWESOME character!
« Last Edit: Jul 31st, 2012 at 3:24am by Thunderbolt »  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #59 - Jul 31st, 2012 at 11:19am
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Dom wrote her up for me and thank God because Ramparts tech-challenged Weakness is inspired from my own. You're right about the skills not being mini-maxed and that's partially because except for Sign Language each are drawn directly from his Origin story.  Largely though it's because I don't intend for him to be a skill based character, so went with flavor over function in a few cases.

Aerospace Engineering, Military Studies, and Air Force are all knowledge skills to represent his time in the Academy and his service time. BSI knowledges are story driven from his Origin.

Command, Leadership, and Tactics are a combination of new House Rules that John B has and Dom is letting me test drive them in the campaign. They are oriented toward improving the teams combat abilities (any bonuses gained apply to the team not Rampart though)

Hope that helps you understand his Skills and & Knowledges a little better Smiley
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #60 - Aug 15th, 2012 at 1:06pm
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Thunderbolt wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 5:36pm:
Lord Inar wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 5:18pm:
I'm sorry, I'm a little bit confused. A task has both a difficulty(Target number) and a difficulty category (Easy, hard, etc)?
It's been a long week (month, really).




I'll try to explain...correct me if I'm wrong here Dom.

You get one rank {a +1} in a skill you select from the number of skills equal to your Intelligence.

When you make a skill check its the skills appropriate stat for the skill you are rolling against...

.... .... !

Ulp.. hey wait a minute!  Dom your skill system is based on a Up is good...1 is a natural failure and 20 an automatic success...

That's opposite of the V&V convention you know?  It just occurred to me... when you attack with a power the higher your save to hit with it the easier it is to roll under the number hence why bonuses to hit increase your number to hit making it easier to roll under.  Pluses to hit do not actually add to your roll as that would make it harder to roll under your target number.

That would mean the higher your stat... the easier it is to succeed if you must roll under it.  Your ranks and stat modifier increase your overall stat so its easier to roll under it.

I think you got it reverse in your above rules.

-----

Now purely talking game system conventions...I'd prefer a roll up and add bonuses on top convention... that's the same dice convention as 3rd Edition D&D!  I never really like systems where you had to roll under a number...but its a major convention in the V&V system. 

I don't have any of the new reprinted rules to know if their system has been updated... I doubt it as it would make most of their previous npcs and villains not usable without major conversion.

BESM {Big Eyes, Small Mouth} by Guardians of Order had a similar convention of roll under in their 1st and 2nd edition rules but bit the bullet and converted their 3rd edition rule to a roll up and add high total wins convention.


Dom you gonna address this?  Cause I'm a little confused to... is rolling up good or under good?
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #61 - Aug 20th, 2012 at 1:43pm
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Guys, I think you're over thinking this. Just roll with it as long as it works.
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #62 - Sep 26th, 2014 at 2:32am
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Ah, would there happen to be any kind of step-by-step guide 'round the site? I can't seem to find anything aside from these guidelines and, being somewhat of a noob as for charactor creation, I figured I should ask for some help.
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #63 - Sep 26th, 2014 at 2:03pm
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For V&V in general, or are you speaking about my specific house rules?
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #64 - Sep 28th, 2014 at 12:55am
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Both, if you wouldn't mind. Frankly I'd use the rulebook, but I can't find it anywhere for free online, can't find it to buy in rl, and can't order it online.
  

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What is death but a terrible release?
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dsumner
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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #65 - Sep 28th, 2014 at 8:28pm
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Well, to use my house rules, you'd need at least a copy of the rule book. Shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can get you a PDF copy from Drivethru RPG.
  

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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #66 - Sep 28th, 2014 at 8:48pm
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Thank ya kindly, I'll shoot you a pm. (To be honest the main reason why I posted in here instead of doing just that was due to the 'have 1 post minimum to pm' rule)
  

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What is death but a terrible release?
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Re: Character Creation Guidelines
Reply #67 - Mar 28th, 2015 at 2:24pm
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Hammer wrote on Nov 13th, 2009 at 7:01pm:
What is the definition of Super Speed, and what is the new Paralysis Ray.  Also, what is Stun Ray?  I know I read this list before, but never realized those definitions were missing.


I just now noticed I never posted a reply to these.  Embarrassed

Paralysis Ray actually reduces a character's movement to 0", and "freezes" them in place (they can't move). Stun Ray/Stun Beam is capable of knocking them out (It pretty much works like Revised V&V's Paralysis Ray). Super Speed replaces Heightened Speed.

I'll be cleaning all of this up, posting a few revisions, and converting all over to a PDF over the next week or so. Then posting here for download. Once I do, please read over it, and ask any questions you may have, as I'm not always as clear with my writing as I should be.
  

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"Nemo me impune lacessit"
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