Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Structural Damage (Read 2082 times)
John
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Structural Damage
Nov 3rd, 2009 at 7:18pm
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  How do you deal with structural damage?   I say that if you dont exceed the structrual rating in one phase, then the thing remains intact.   For instance,  to break a one foot concret wall one must exceed its SR of 6.  So if you do just six, the wall is unharmed.   And if you do 7 damage, you put a one foot hole in the wall.    
    I also have my players roll a crtical hit roll.  If they roll under the damage they did to the wall, even if the wall withstood the attack, they can still damage it. 

So if they did five damage to a wall with six structural points, and they roll a four on the knock out roll, then they reduced the structural rating by one.  I say that they caused small fissures in the wall.    This way they can pound the wall untill they exceed the SR or put enough cracks that they weaken the wall untill they can smash it. 
   Of course, if they hit the wall  and don't exceed the SR then that damage is taken by the fist, bat, battering ram or what have you that struck the wall. 
   So if your fist isn't pulped, you just may make it out of that cell!
   Or if your sword doesn't shatter, you just may chop your way out of the prision!
  

I am scary, very, very scary.
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John
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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #1 - Nov 4th, 2009 at 12:04am
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I allow attacks to do structural damage on occasion.  Tools designed to do structural damage, like drills, saws and such are specifically designed to chip away at structures so they can take away SP's from materials.
   Attacks like disintergration, flame, or acids may reduce a structural rating of a material on a case by case basis.  I also allow cold to temperarily reduce structure as the molecules slow and the material becomes brittle.
  

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Hammer
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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #2 - Nov 4th, 2009 at 9:57am
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I've done somethng similar with Ice Powers, but I just applied the damage roll to the SR.  1d12 + damage bonus vs. the SR, in that case a lock... and he walked out of the room, holding the doorknob. Smiley

I've never heard of this variant, in damaging something.  I've always allowed them to do partial damage, adding previous damage until they "broke through."  I've never had them cause damage to their hands or weapons... but it sounds reasonable.  Wink
  
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John
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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #3 - Nov 4th, 2009 at 4:49pm
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I look at it like this, if you allow punches and such to do partial damage, then Aunt May can punch her way out of an adamantium cell sooner or later.
  

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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #4 - Nov 5th, 2009 at 8:38am
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touche'
  
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Justice
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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #5 - Nov 23rd, 2009 at 3:35am
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John,

I think the rules say or directly imply that the SSR (or SR) is not only the resistance but also the hit points of the object.

So I think you are right that SSR of 6 needs a 7 or more to harm it.

But I think that only 1/6th of the cubic foot would be displaced (you did 1 pt of damage and it also had 6 'hit points').

If it has a 30 SSR and you do 33 points of damage, again, only 3 would hurt the object, but that would be 1/10 of its hits or about 1.2" cubed area displaced.

A little wonky to use the same number for both, but if you think differently, you end up with a universe that is immune, immune, immune and then SUDDENLY, by doing 1 pt of damage above the SSR , a cubic foot of material blows away.

A rather explosive universe IMHO. Wink

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Imaginos
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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #6 - Nov 25th, 2009 at 2:30pm
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Justice - John is actually pulling it directly from the rules there.  Section 8.3 states:

Quote:
To break or blast through any material requires that a minimum amount of damage equal to the Structural Rating of the substance be achieved.  If successful, all damage inflicted counts against the material; if not, the shot has no effect...

A bodily impact which bounces off requires the attacker to take damage equal to 1/2 of the points he did inflict (armor, invulnerability, rolling with the punch will apply)...

When damaged, a substance's Structural Rating indicates its hit points per cubic foot; the damage inflicted equals the number of hit points worth of substance which are reduced to powder/shards/splinters etc.  In most cases, attacks will knock out great chunks of substance as well.  The GM can multiply the number of cubic feet actually displaced by the attack by up to 10 times depending on the attack method used.


I hate copying that much of the text, but figure it would be best said on its own there.  The rules also mentioning how to damage the substance without risking damage to yourself.
  
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Majestic
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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #7 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 1:52pm
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Imaginos wrote on Nov 25th, 2009 at 2:30pm:
Justice - John is actually pulling it directly from the rules there.  Section 8.3 states:

Quote:
To break or blast through any material requires that a minimum amount of damage equal to the Structural Rating of the substance be achieved.  If successful, all damage inflicted counts against the material; if not, the shot has no effect...

A bodily impact which bounces off requires the attacker to take damage equal to 1/2 of the points he did inflict (armor, invulnerability, rolling with the punch will apply)...

When damaged, a substance's Structural Rating indicates its hit points per cubic foot; the damage inflicted equals the number of hit points worth of substance which are reduced to powder/shards/splinters etc.  In most cases, attacks will knock out great chunks of substance as well.  The GM can multiply the number of cubic feet actually displaced by the attack by up to 10 times depending on the attack method used.


I hate copying that much of the text, but figure it would be best said on its own there.  The rules also mentioning how to damage the substance without risking damage to yourself.


That's good that you quoted them for clarity.  The only thing I would say that looks like it is different (in the rules) from what John posted is that it appears that if you do exactly the amount of damage = the SR, then you still damage the item (i.e., it doesn't appear that you're required to do 1 point over).

Not that John isn't welcome to do it his own way; just clarifying that it doesn't appear this is the way the straight-up rules are written as such (unless I'm missing something).
« Last Edit: Nov 26th, 2009 at 1:52pm by Majestic »  
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Imaginos
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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #8 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 4:36pm
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You, good sir, are correct.
  
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Justice
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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #9 - Dec 5th, 2009 at 1:37am
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Eric correctly quotes the rules John references:

Quote:
To break or blast through any material requires that a minimum amount of damage equal to the Structural Rating of the substance be achieved.  If successful, all damage inflicted counts against the material; if not, the shot has no effect...

A bodily impact which bounces off requires the attacker to take damage equal to 1/2 of the points he did inflict (armor, invulnerability, rolling with the punch will apply)...

When damaged, a substance's Structural Rating indicates its hit points per cubic foot; the damage inflicted equals the number of hit points worth of substance which are reduced to powder/shards/splinters etc.  In most cases, attacks will knock out great chunks of substance as well.  The GM can multiply the number of cubic feet actually displaced by the attack by up to 10 times depending on the attack method used.


So if I do 10 points of damage to a 10 SR wall, I knock out a cubic foot, since ALL damage is applied and I did the minimum of 10, as I read it.

If I did 9, NOTHING would happen.

Therefore, this is a universe of "you can blow away a cubic foot or up to 10 times that but you cannot scratch the object."

As I said, an explosive universe.

Tap - dang

TAP - DANG

TAPP!! - the wall explodes into a thousand shards.

Undecided

I think this is an area of the rules that need to be fixed.

Just my humble opinion.

I've interpreted them a little differently to keep the devastation down.


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Majestic
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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #10 - Dec 5th, 2009 at 6:16pm
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Quote:
Eric correctly quotes the rules John references:

Quote:
To break or blast through any material requires that a minimum amount of damage equal to the Structural Rating of the substance be achieved.  If successful, all damage inflicted counts against the material; if not, the shot has no effect...

A bodily impact which bounces off requires the attacker to take damage equal to 1/2 of the points he did inflict (armor, invulnerability, rolling with the punch will apply)...

When damaged, a substance's Structural Rating indicates its hit points per cubic foot; the damage inflicted equals the number of hit points worth of substance which are reduced to powder/shards/splinters etc.  In most cases, attacks will knock out great chunks of substance as well.  The GM can multiply the number of cubic feet actually displaced by the attack by up to 10 times depending on the attack method used.


So if I do 10 points of damage to a 10 SR wall, I knock out a cubic foot, since ALL damage is applied and I did the minimum of 10, as I read it.

If I did 9, NOTHING would happen.

Therefore, this is a universe of "you can blow away a cubic foot or up to 10 times that but you cannot scratch the object."

As I said, an explosive universe.

Tap - dang

TAP - DANG

TAPP!! - the wall explodes into a thousand shards.

Undecided

I think this is an area of the rules that need to be fixed.

Just my humble opinion.

I've interpreted them a little differently to keep the devastation down.


peace
justice


Agreed.  And at the very least, if you do 9 points of damage to that wall, you ought to be able to scratch (or dent, or mark, or inflict some kind of damage to) it.

On the other hand, I like the fact that - if you put a normal person in a room with steel walls and nothing but their fists (or feet, or a stick, or whatever) - they're never going to get out of it.  It's the reason - in the jail I work in - we can strip somebody down (wearing nothing except a safety/suicide smock) before they get put in one of our "rubber rooms", and they can't do diddly to the room itself.  They could do 1 (or 2 or 3) points of damage over and over and over and over (for weeks, if need be, as some people have stayed in there for that long) and not do any damage to it.  Even if you put somebody really strong in there (perhaps somebody who could do 1d8 HtH damage), they are going to be unable to bend the steel bars (in the floor, over the small grate that serves as their "toilet") or hurt the walls, floor, ceiling, or door.
  
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Justice
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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #11 - Dec 20th, 2009 at 1:06am
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Yeah, I heard that.

Well what I do is reduce the attack damage by the SSR of the object. What is left over hurts a fraction of the 'hit points per cubic foot'.

Say it has an SSR of 11 - steel bars in this case.

Dude will have to do 12 to even begin hurting it. And that 1 point of damage over the SSR will take out 1/11th of a cubic foot of steel.

Now if you realize a cubic foot is 12" by 12" by 12" = 1728" then that is still enough to break out a 1" diameter steel bar of some height! 157" in fact or 13 feet high!

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....

I think I would change this to a 'square foot of the common width of the substance, usually 1" or less.'

Just to ameliorate the explosiveness between 11 = no effect and 12=effect.

Does that sound reasonable?

  
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Majestic
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Re: Structural Damage
Reply #12 - Dec 22nd, 2009 at 6:44pm
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Quote:
Yeah, I heard that.

Well what I do is reduce the attack damage by the SSR of the object. What is left over hurts a fraction of the 'hit points per cubic foot'.

Say it has an SSR of 11 - steel bars in this case.

Dude will have to do 12 to even begin hurting it. And that 1 point of damage over the SSR will take out 1/11th of a cubic foot of steel.

Now if you realize a cubic foot is 12" by 12" by 12" = 1728" then that is still enough to break out a 1" diameter steel bar of some height! 157" in fact or 13 feet high!

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....

I think I would change this to a 'square foot of the common width of the substance, usually 1" or less.'

Just to ameliorate the explosiveness between 11 = no effect and 12=effect.

Does that sound reasonable?



That might be good.  It's tough to make something where you avoid the "explosive universe".  The key is to make things breakable, but not where Aunt May can tear down a S.H.I.E.L.D. base as if the walls are made of cardboard!    Cheesy
  
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