Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) A power purchasing system (Read 3030 times)
Ryxis47
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A power purchasing system
Oct 12th, 2010 at 11:28pm
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So I'm going to start a vnv campaign this weekend and I'm pretty excited, I've never played it before but I've been wanting to play a superhero rpg for ages.

The random powers is intriguing, and that's how me and my friends will be playing for at least this weekend. But I was wondering if anyone has thought of a way for people to choose their powers without the game becoming unbalanced or anything, perhaps like a point buy system?

I'm sure the random powers will be entertaining, but thinking long term I could see the players growing a bit restless and wanting to choose things for themselves.

On a sort of related note has anyone ever felt 'screwed over' by the random power selection? Like you just get a bunch of powers you have trouble finding consistent use for or you never find an opportunity in game to really use a power?

Anyway, I'm anxious to see what you guys think, thanks!
  
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #1 - Oct 12th, 2010 at 11:53pm
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First of all, welcome to the fold!  V&V is my favorite superhero RPG, and it's a great game.

Jeff Dee used to have the V&V rules upgrade on his website, which included point buy for powers.  Here is a link to the site http://www.io.com/unigames/vandv.html
That should still be a good link, can't verify it at work though.

But, let me just mention, V&V isn't a game about point balance.  I never found trying to make it point buy work any better than just eye-balling it.  It might take a little experience with the system, but don't be afraid to say "I think that power is a little weak compared to the rest of the group, so let's soup it up some".

The biggest screw-over my group ever felt with powers was when most folks rolled on the high-side of powers, and then one guy rolled the minimum.  A good way to get around that is to just let everyone have X number of powers - heck, as the GM, you could roll the d6+2 and say "here is the number of powers each person gets for this campaign".

On the actual power generation side, our fix was this:

Pick 2 tables and make the power roll.  Record both options, and what tables they came from.  Do this for all of the powers you generated, then go through and pick one from each set.  Our group typically picked skills as the second table, since it gives you the best option on not rolling duplicates (as well as giving you heightened stats to help round out concepts).
  
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Ryxis47
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #2 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 11:12am
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Thanks for the link, the advice, and the welcome!

I think as we learn more about the system there's a good chance I'll let the characters choose powers just based on concepts they have and to pay less attention to the points they have available. But for right now this really helps.
  
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #3 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 3:30pm
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I allow my players to purchase powers.   THey spend their experience points.

If they have four powers and which a fifth, then they have to be atleast fifth level and spend 50,000 experience.

If they have five powers and which to have a sixth, then they have to be atleast sixth level and spend 60,0000.

They can cut the cost in half, if they choose to get a weakness with the power. ( I pick the weakness..hehehe.)

My only rule is that the new power has to fit the character.  Spider Man will never get flame powers.
  

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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #4 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 3:39pm
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John wrote on Oct 13th, 2010 at 3:30pm:
I allow my players to purchase powers.   THey spend their experience points. If they have four powers and which a fifth, then they have to be atleast fifth level and spend 50,000 experience.If they have five powers and which to have a sixth, then they have to be atleast sixth level and spend 60,0000.They can cut the cost in half, if they choose to get a weakness with the power. ( I pick the weakness..hehehe.)My only rule is that the new power has to fit the character.  Spider Man will never get flame powers.


John, I was wondering if you have a House Rules experience chart. The reason I ask is that in order to have 50,000 experience points, the character must be at least 9th level (based on the rulebook), and to have 60,000 experience points the character must be at least 10th level (based on the rulebook). So the level-based requirements you list above (e.g. at least fifth level to add a fifth power) are already taken care of by the experience-point requirements you've set.

Even if the character cuts those numbers in half by adding a weakness, 25,000 experience points (for a fifth power) means the character is at least 6th level, and 30,000 experience points (for a sixth power) places the character at 7th level or higher. Again, the level-based requirements described above are handled here as well.
« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2010 at 3:46pm by polarboy »  
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John
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #5 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 4:23pm
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Yes I know, if you have 50,000 experience you have to be above 5th level, but I added that in so that when you get to the 17 level range, you need some sort of control or players will just buy powers rather than go up levels.

And yes, you can have 100 experience and be 5th level in my game.  Once you level up,  you retain the level even if you spend your points buying a power.

Also, I forgot to add, each weakness cancels a power in terms of the cost.

So if you have five powers and two weaknesses, then its the samd as three powers.  5-2=3.  So in that case, it will costs you 40,000 experience to buy a power.   The more weaknessess you have the easier it is  to get more powers.
  

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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #6 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 4:41pm
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Playing with John's rules for over a decade now, I have to say this rule works out pretty well. It prevents you from buying powers too early.

It makes sense to wait until like 7th or 8th level (on average) to buy a new power. This way you've had ample time with your hero and can make better sense of what type of power to buy.  It also makes me think twice about using Karma (see John's house rules) too often since it eats away at experience points and can prevent me from buying a power when I feel I am ready for it.

  

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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #7 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 5:56pm
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I think the question was referring to initial character creation. I'm not a big fan of  a point system but I guess I can see whre it would be useful to level out the campaign. If someone is familiar with the game then having the characters randomly generate their powers or even choosing them based off what type of character they would like to play should not be an issue. The character with 200 Hits may not be able to hit the broad side of a barn while the character with 35 Hits, Heightened defense and High Agility may be the real dangerous one more often than not.

I have used John's house rule once for buying a power and bought WillPower type A because the Character needed it and it fit. I think that was around 8th level.
  
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #8 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 6:33pm
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John wrote on Oct 13th, 2010 at 3:30pm:
I allow my players to purchase powers.   THey spend their experience points.

If they have four powers and which a fifth, then they have to be atleast fifth level and spend 50,000 experience.

If they have five powers and which to have a sixth, then they have to be atleast sixth level and spend 60,0000.

They can cut the cost in half, if they choose to get a weakness with the power. ( I pick the weakness..hehehe.)

My only rule is that the new power has to fit the character.  Spider Man will never get flame powers.


I'm curious about how they 'spend' the XP - do they go down levels then?  In other words, do they lose the XP they spend?

[Edit - I see after further reading that they don't go down levels; do they still need to earn that much more to go to the next level?]
« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2010 at 6:49pm by Majestic »  
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #9 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 6:37pm
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To answer the initial question, I would encourage you to at least try the random approach (as it gives some really fun results).  As the GM, you're not stuck with anything you roll (you can always boost a power, change one, insert one, etc.).  Eric's method of picking on two charts is a good one too (I rolled up a character with my son last night and we looked at that as we rolled, just to see what options he would have had).

I wouldn't go with choosing your own until you have a little bit more experience with the system.  Some things that might look powerful really aren't, and some that look pretty inoccuous are beastly.   Smiley
  
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #10 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 6:44pm
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Majestic wrote on Oct 13th, 2010 at 6:33pm:
John wrote on Oct 13th, 2010 at 3:30pm:
I allow my players to purchase powers.   THey spend their experience points.

If they have four powers and which a fifth, then they have to be atleast fifth level and spend 50,000 experience.

If they have five powers and which to have a sixth, then they have to be atleast sixth level and spend 60,0000.

They can cut the cost in half, if they choose to get a weakness with the power. ( I pick the weakness..hehehe.)

My only rule is that the new power has to fit the character.  Spider Man will never get flame powers.


I'm curious about how they 'spend' the XP - do they go down levels then?  In other words, do they lose the XP they spend?

[Edit - I see after further reading that they don't go down levels; do they still need to earn that much more to go to the next level]



Yes, I think  quite a few if not all of the characters  have way less experience points than their current levels require.    But they are ok with waiting a LOOONG time before going up a level.

With my Karma rule and Power Purchasing rule  its common to level up, then spend experience so that they stay  a level for quite a while.
  

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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #11 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 6:46pm
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Some more than others..... Smiley
  
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #12 - Oct 14th, 2010 at 10:33am
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John wrote on Oct 13th, 2010 at 3:30pm:
My only rule is that the new power has to fit the character.  Spider Man will never get flame powers.


And why not? He could become the Flaming Arachnoid.
  
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #13 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 3:29am
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Interesting concept... power buying. How do you prevent power creeping? Keeping balance... (meaning a guy who has had Uberlad since 1st level and is now 19th with 10 superpowers) against John Doe the first level crime fighter with 4 or 5?
  
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #14 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 10:10am
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Well, unfortunatly, when the players get more powerful, the bad guys and challanges get even more so.
  

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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #15 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 11:12am
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John wrote on Nov 2nd, 2010 at 10:10am:
Well, unfortunatly, when the players get more powerful, the bad guys and challanges get even more so.    


Which makes it that much harder on the new guy  Grin
  

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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #16 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 12:00pm
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Gerry wrote on Nov 2nd, 2010 at 11:12am:
John wrote on Nov 2nd, 2010 at 10:10am:
Well, unfortunatly, when the players get more powerful, the bad guys and challanges get even more so.    


Which makes it that much harder on the new guy  Grin



I know,  I feel bad, but then I made them SO powerful that even the super experienced players couldn't beat them up.   They had to use different tactics to win.    Just punching the bad guy in the face is not always the solution.

Glad you had fun, but I did feel bad.   Its rough being the first level guy when everyone else is in their 10-12 level range.
  

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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #17 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 2:32am
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John wrote on Nov 2nd, 2010 at 12:00pm:
I know,  I feel bad, but then I made them SO powerful that even the super experienced players couldn't beat them up.   They had to use different tactics to win.    Just punching the bad guy in the face is not always the solution.

Glad you had fun, but I did feel bad.   Its rough being the first level guy when everyone else is in their 10-12 level range.


Actually, it wasn't really that bad. I knew coming into the game that I would be underpowered compared to the rest of the team. I kind of enjoyed playing the inexperienced hero. The character went into the situation brimming with confidence that his armor could handle anything, and ended up feeling totally out of his depth by how powerful the astronauts were. I found it a great opportunity for character role play, so it worked out well.

besides, I did end up 4th level afterwards from all the xp, and that bonus was a nice surprise (as I didn't think I had earned one, but since everyone agreed that I did, felt  that the old "ring rust" had worn off).

If I survive long enough, I need to boost my armor's ADR though. Just watching the damage Modi and Marshal Strong were dishing out made Glare piss himself  Tongue
  

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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #18 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 2:48am
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One of my complaints about V&V is that some powers scale with level while others do not.  The most notable being Heightened Attack.  That's why I prefer to use it as the damage variant of Heightened Expertise.   It is either a +4 to damage with one attack, a group of attacks, or all attacks.
  
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #19 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 3:30pm
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I think the best way to create a character is to first develop a concept. What kind of character do you want to play? What is he capable of? What is his achilles heel? What's his background? Does he have family, friends? etc...
Once you know that you can work with the GM to assign a group of powers and weaknesses that make sense, are balanced and offer a few story hooks into the campaign.

With this method no player should ever feel underpowered or cheated as he will be playing what he wants to play. If he likes "Batman" type characters and makes a character based on that I doubt he will be upset that he's not as powerful as another character's "Superman" type character. Just make sure all your players get opportunities to shine in the spotlight from time to time.

Even as a first time GM you can try this with the understanding between you and your players that 1. More powers means more ability and will result in more difficult challenges and 2. tweaking will be necessary if balance becomes an issue.

Don't try to get it perfect..just DO IT!1 Pick up the pieces afterward if something gets broken and make improvements that suit you and your players.
  
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Re: A power purchasing system
Reply #20 - Nov 8th, 2010 at 12:50pm
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I disagree, because of the randomness of V&V. What if someone wants to play a spider man type, and ends up with

Water Breathing, Wings, Willpower, Power Blast, Heightened Charisma.

??

I think the best thing to do is to roll up a guy, then toy with ideas and your open ended powers.
  
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