Poll
Poll Question: Is V&V Dead?
bars   pie

Yes    
  2 (10.5%)
No    
  9 (47.4%)
What is V&V?    
  2 (10.5%)
Everything has already been discussed    
  2 (10.5%)
The Elder Gods will return and devour your dice    
  4 (21.1%)




Total votes: 19
« Created by: Imaginos on: Oct 13th, 2016 at 11:36am »
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Is V&V Dead? (Read 3359 times)
Imaginos
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Is V&V Dead?
Oct 13th, 2016 at 11:36am
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Discussion seems to be at an end.  Did the game die now that the court battle is finished?    Cheesy
  
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Ramble
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Re: Is V&V Dead?
Reply #1 - Oct 14th, 2016 at 1:12pm
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I can only speak for myself.
The game is alive and it's still growing. But I'm sure that for some, the fact that the court battle is over means they have less to contribute. When the conversation changes from "X sucks - don't you think X sucks too?" to "So what are YOU doing to support and grow the game?" then I think those who don't have a lot to offer will stop talking. OR they turn away and focus on those things they neglected while the fight was happening, OR they'll just find another fight somewhere to invest in.

I'm not against anyone buying new product - heck, I write books so I'm counting on that. But if we are going to rebuild the game for a new generation we really need to get past the court fighting and grow the game.

Okay, I admit it I'm starting to

RAMBLE
« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2016 at 1:14pm by Ramble »  
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Re: Is V&V Dead?
Reply #2 - Oct 14th, 2016 at 11:52pm
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There's a whole symposium in May 2017 about V&V ... (a.k.a. Verification & Validation) ...

https://www.asme.org/events/vandv
  
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John
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Re: Is V&V Dead?
Reply #3 - Oct 15th, 2016 at 12:18pm
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We are the only people who play.  I would gather that there are probably less than a 1000 people world wide to still play this game.   

Not saying its dead, but its not exactly living either.
  

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Re: Is V&V Dead?
Reply #4 - Oct 15th, 2016 at 5:02pm
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John wrote on Oct 15th, 2016 at 12:18pm:
We are the only people who play.  I would gather that there are probably less than a 1000 people world wide to still play this game.   

Not saying its dead, but its not exactly living either.


And that there is another thread entirely. Smiley

RAMBLE
  
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Re: Is V&V Dead?
Reply #5 - Oct 15th, 2016 at 10:38pm
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I voted for Everything has already been discussed.
  
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Ramble
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Re: Is V&V Dead?
Reply #6 - Oct 16th, 2016 at 8:26pm
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polarboy wrote on Oct 15th, 2016 at 10:38pm:
I voted for Everything has already been discussed.


Good to know. Given that choice... why do you continue to visit the forum?

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Re: Is V&V Dead?
Reply #7 - Oct 17th, 2016 at 1:07am
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Ramble wrote on Oct 16th, 2016 at 8:26pm:
Good to know. Given that choice... why do you continue to visit the forum?

RAMBLE


I came back for the polls. Smiley
  
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Re: Is V&V Dead?
Reply #8 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 12:18pm
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I wish it had been possible to multi-vote for "No" and "The Elder Gods will return and devour your dice".  The latter not because it applies so much to V&V but because, you know, it'd be cool ("Natural twenty, Cthulhu!  Natural twenty!").

I think V&V has got a strong future in front of it.  MHG is getting a, presumably, strong start going as they build into the post-Thanksgiving/pre-Christmas season, and FGU with an already-entrenched customer base and the prospect (again, presumably) of putting together an independent game engine that shares the name with the MHG version.

Expecting that the heads of state, so to speak, keep their motivations intact, their accounts in the black and their quality levels above water, I think we're looking at a decade-plus of lively activity from both sides.
« Last Edit: Oct 20th, 2016 at 12:18pm by Tempest »  
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Re: Is V&V Dead?
Reply #9 - Oct 29th, 2016 at 9:15am
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John wrote on Oct 15th, 2016 at 12:18pm:
We are the only people who play.  I would gather that there are probably less than a 1000 people world wide to still play this game.   

Not saying its dead, but its not exactly living either.


Thoughts along these lines have occurred to me from time-to-time as well over the last several years, back even before the legal battle, but also during it.

I've also mulled over occasionally the related question, "what exactly is V&V in 2016?"

Is "Villains & Vigilantes" the rulebook and boxed set from 1982, which I still have in a closet?  Is it my lingering memories in 2016 of playing the game most actively 30 years ago? 

Or, rather, is V&V the people playing the game actively today, no matter how few or how house ruled? 

Or is it what is currently sold in 2016 under the name "Villains & Vigilantes," whether published 30 years ago, or within the last few years?

Or is it just the trademark?

Or is it the creators, or the publisher? 

And would a new game, published now using that trademark (either under license or otherwise) definitely be "Villains & Vigilantes" because that's its title, even if the game system were very different than the 1982 version?

Or is "Villains & Vigilantes" in 2016 some combination of the above.

I've never really come to a firm conclusion about this myself.

I've also wondered similarly about "Champions," as the trademark and other IP are now owned, after a series of purchases and corporate acquisitions, by a Chinese parent company, I understand; while the most recent publisher of the RPG, DoJ dba Hero Games  (not the original publisher or the game's original creators), has lain essentially dormant for 5 years. Though they do apparently have a back license to use the IP for tabletop RPGs, I read online years ago.   And yet, the most recent "Strike Force" book was published recently (after a successful Kickstarer) by yet a different company. 

What indeed is "Champions" in 2016, as well?
« Last Edit: Oct 29th, 2016 at 9:18am by dan2448 »  
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Re: Is V&V Dead?
Reply #10 - Oct 29th, 2016 at 1:22pm
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It's probably important to note that Jason Walters owns both DOJ and is a major owner/partner in Black Wyrm Games, publisher of the new Strike Force.

My guess is that he decided to keep the property as clean as possible by publishing under his third party company with a license for Champions so as to make sure that the IP for Allston's work stays free of the actual Champions ownership entanglement. Sort of like Marvel deciding not to make any new mutants until they get the IP back from Fox.

Just a wild guess on my part, but I've worked with Jason and Black Wyrm games, and they are smart cookies over there.

Edit: My bad, it was High Rock Press, Jason's OTHER imprint.  The rest of the text still applies however.  Wink
« Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2016 at 3:05pm by proditorcappela »  
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Re: Is V&V Dead?
Reply #11 - Nov 7th, 2016 at 9:36am
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I voted "No", but would have liked a more definitive option. 

I will continue to play this game as long as I have people interested in playing with me and I will continue to write my own adventures so in that sense, the game is not dead.

However, I am unsure about buying a new rulebook and learning a different system to play a game I already know. I probably will, but might never use it.  It will depend on how well it works and how different it is.  Most likely, I will hybridize the two, taking what I like from each and discarding the rest.

  
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