Normal Topic That other V&V... (Read 80 times)
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That other V&V...
Jan 29th, 2018 at 12:41pm
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I did a few searches, but could not find any threads on MHG's V&V 3.0 "Mighty Protectors".

I'm just wondering if anyone else has read it, and what they think.
  

John "Ironnerd" Adams
"The GM is the balancing mechanic" - Klystron
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Re: That other V&V...
Reply #1 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 3:39pm
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I've not only read it, but played it a number of times (alongside Jeff Dee, with Jack Herman as GM) and run it many times.

I think it's great.  Same old V&V, but the combat system is much streamlined.  It now has a few powers (like Grapnel) that were really lacking in the older game.  I wish it had a Skill system, but that can probably easily be tacked on.  Overall you can make just about any character, and it plays smooth and fun.  I really like the critical (success and fumble) charts.  And everything is WAY more balanced in this version.
  
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Re: That other V&V...
Reply #2 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 4:51pm
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I am glad to know someone likes it. I figure it'll be a love/hate thing. I'm a little disappointed.
The reasons you seem to like V&V 3.0 are also common with BESM (from 1997ish), and it has the Skill System that V&V is lacking.

Of course no game system is perfect, but it does seem like Mr. Herman and Mr. Dee were a little tunnel-visioned when they built V&V 3.0. Why would I spend my money on a game that seems to be missing an important sub-system when I can buy another game that allows me to make a super-hero, has a very nice combat system, and is more complete?

It's not good enough to be better than V&V 2nd Edition, they needed to be better than the other dozen or so games in the same or similar genres.

Maybe I just read to many game systems.
« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2018 at 12:09pm by Ironnerd »  

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Re: That other V&V...
Reply #3 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 7:45pm
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I was going to answer in the other thread here mentioning MP/3.0 (I thought it was a Poll called "Is V&V Dead?"), but that threads appears to be gone.

I suppose some people will like/love it and some will hate it.  In play, I have watched many other people as well (like when Jeff ran it at Gary Con) and their anecdotal evidence has been that people generally really, really like it.

Personally, while I really like it, I think it's just a tad too complex to ever be a mainstream hit, even if that were possible (with the fractured superhero RPG niche market).

FWIW, though, it does seem to be doing okay.  Not only did they raise a ton of money on their Kickstarter (showing there's some fans and interest out there), but there's two different V&V 3.0 events at GaryCon this year (one of them is an 8 hour marathon session!) and I will likely run a pick-up game there as well.  So 3 games by 3 different GMs.  I don't remember seeing any Champions games, and there's very little other superhero games being played there (a few FASERIP and DC Heroes and the like).

Also, for this year's (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links), it looks like it is (much like the 80s) a race between Champions and V&V for the top spot (most loved new product), with V&V ahead of Mutants and Masterminds and solidly in the #2 spot.

So just saying that there does appear to be a bit of love out there for it, so some people must be really enjoying it.
  
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Re: That other V&V...
Reply #4 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 10:15pm
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It's no mystery why Champions and V&V would be 1st and 2nd respectively in a poll about popular Super Hero Games. Both are classic Super Hero Games that people grew up playing and really love.

Look, I'm not AK with some completely insane personal grudge against MHG. I'm a gamer who sees a game that was released in 2017 that looks like an "also-ran" game from the late 1990's.

Many systems are less complicated, can create basically any character, have interesting powers, a slick combat system, and also include the much-desired skill system.
For a quick comparison, go to DriveThru RPG and look up items using the ICONS Super Hero RPG Rules, you get about 360-something returns and 21 ratings giving it 4.8 out of 5 stars.
Pull up MHG, you get 27 items and 4 reviews with an average of 4.5 out of 5 stars
FGU V&V gives you 55 items and no reviews (because the rules are no longer available on the site)

If you like V&V 3.0, play it. I actually hope Mr. Dee and Mr. Herman make a mint from sales of their new product line. I'm always happy when a gamer enjoys a game, but you've stated it is a bit too complex and lacks a skill system so I have to wonder why you enjoy it more than a more streamlined game with a skill system. Because it's V&V? Because you got to play it with Jeff Dee? Or because it is a solid game that is as close to the game you would wish for as any game could ever be?
« Last Edit: Feb 1st, 2018 at 12:27pm by Ironnerd »  

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Re: That other V&V...
Reply #5 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 4:48pm
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There's a number of reasons I like it, but being able to play a game with Jeff isn't really one of them.

In most ways I prefer the more basic combat system of this version (roll a d20, and no more having to consult an elaborate chart or charts to figure out if it hit) to 2.1.  The basic task and resolution system makes sense, and the overall general mechanics work very smoothly.  For instance, being able to quickly and easily figure out how much knockback AND how much of the substance they hit is displaced is brilliant (and something I've not seen any other games figure out).

I still love most of the art in the book, and the vast majority of the characters and worldbuilding (though I only use a portion of it) is really well done and well thought out.

As for those other games, while I have enjoyed a number of others, especially SUPERS! and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, I haven't found another that captures the fun and magic that V&V does.

I suppose the nostalgia factor does factor into those two getting high marks, but you have to admit that they're at least keying into something with the playing community.  If every (or even most) player had the same reaction you did to MP, it wouldn't be getting so many votes for "best game", I wouldn't think.  Not that your response is badwrongfun.  I can totally understand and respect that we don't always all like the same things.  But clearly it's resonating with some.
  
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Re: That other V&V...
Reply #6 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 5:01pm
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Dang... No "like" button.

3.0 just didn't resonate with me. I doubt FGU's V&V 3rd ed will resonate with me either. Not that either is (or will be) a bad game. I guess it's the same reasons people picked Champions over V&V way back when. I thought Champions was really sub-par compared to V&V. Maybe, after 30+ years, the tables have turned.

Laters.
  

John "Ironnerd" Adams
"The GM is the balancing mechanic" - Klystron
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