You can as a GM recommend things (Like if the PC is a Paladin and is about to do something unpaladin-like)... but the decision and the ramifications of what a PC does is wholly upon them and the game terms (A GM might not like it... but is forced to roll with it).

Let us not forget that occasionally frustrating player who does play an unheroic chara (for no apparent reason) and disrupts the game. It does happen.
Sometimes the GM has to make a call or intervene. (Though I would normally suggest calling a break and taking a moment to discuss it with the Player alone).
If it is established that your playing a four color campaign... and suddenly a Player decides he wants to turn it into a Dark Champions game... I think it is okay for the GM to make a call and likely call a halt until the issue is resolved.

BUT... we are derailing from the initial subject here.

If you want to play a "COMIC BOOK" type world of pretty colors and dynamic heroics... emulating comics the best you can is a great thing to do. YEAH... you can't emulate all the aspects of a comic.
BUT... like the points that SF and me were stating, By going over chara from comics - via certain time periods. It is possible to see a comic in V&V terms.

Now... as far as your inclusion of that stuff from Classic X-Men... Sorry... I don't count that as the period I was discussing. They are all "After Thoughts" and not all of it meshes with the storylines as it flowed in the ACTUAL comics. Some of it was so bland and boring I am surprised Claremont actually wrote it (But by this time he had lost his writing flare in my opinion) and sorry... but John Bolton's work had that washed out feel to it. Hardly matching anything from the comics at that time.
So I don't really include that stuff in my personal assesments (Though I do have virtually all of the Classic X-Men from that time - I notice they didn't include them with the Essential X-Men...) of the chara as they were at that time. So I think that both Nightcrawler and Colossus were NPC. Even with the weak solo stories - I could have readily related that stuff as background info on said chara.
Just a difference of opinion... frankly I always felt with both of those two characters backgrounds (and Banshee's, my favorite X-Man) that they should have been PC types. Unfortunately they just weren't written as UP as the other members.

Let's do the Inhumans...

I see the PCs in most of thier appearences as...
Medusa
Crystal (most definitely!)
Triton

Blackbolt, Gorgon, Karnak and Lockjaw all seemed to always fade to the background. Heck... even Quicksilver here was a NPC.

In Daredevil I saw both Black Widow and Electra as NPCs... though Daredevil was definitely a PC (and a very interesting one at that).

Captain America of course seems to be a PC no matter where he appears.
Though I thought Falcon was more a NPC during his time with the Avengers. He was certainly a PC in CA.
Same for Nomad as well.
Heck I even think that Nick Fury might have been a PC... he was just too strong of a chara not to be (Though others might disagree with me there).

Within the Guardian of the Galaxy I see these chara as the PCs

Vance Astro
Nikki
Charlie 27

I saw Martinex, Yondu and Starhawk (Stakar/Aleta) as more NPC types (in their original comic appearences - except the Defenders stuff... where everyone but Vance was NPCs). Though it is possible for Martinex to be a PC as well (and I certainly would have loved for him to stand out more).

In the Avengers "Korvac Saga" there is a possiblity that Starhawk might be a PC... though doubtful... uber cosmic types of his nature (with a Cosmic Awareness way beyond that of Cap Mar'Vell), usually seem more fitting of the NPC status.

Starhawk is another of my absolute favorite characters... actually... the team as a whole is possible my favorite team (next to the original ORIGINAL JLA, Teen Titans and Defenders - sorry old school player here!).

G7

I disagree with your assesment of Bolton's work - I think he does an awesome job, though it IS very different from the usual style (especially of that time).

As for Claremont, I think MOST of his stuff is nasty, with a huge caveat: his work with Byrne (on X-Men) is one of the best runs in comics history, IMHO.  But I think a HUGE factor in that was Byrne, as Claremont on his own is wordy, cliched, and not that great of a writer (in my view).

If I had to read "he's the best he is at what he does" or "with a speed that belied his massive bulk" another seven thousand times...       

SF
I think Kitty/Sprite was indeed a PC (with a LARGE handout for backdrop).
So far as the XP thing would go... I am divided here. As it was her FUTURE self that controlled the body while young Kitty was in Rachel's arms in the future.
It is possible there was some transfer (as Kitty young passed Kitty adult in the time transference) of xp to young Kitty once all was said and done (though she was possibly unaware of it. She just seemed to be doing the right things after the fact better than previously... including being more confident and stable during combat - Vague I know... but with little more explaination in game terms, for me that would work best).

Maj
Well we will agree to disagree on the Bolton stuff.

Claremont - He was writing some damn fine stuff before Byrne (both of whom I have met) ever joined the staff of X-Men, with the wonderful artist Dave Cockrum (Just an amazingly nice man - RIP) doing some very fun stuff. I just believe by the time he reached issue #150 he had reached his limit (same scenario for Wolfman on Titans - who I personally told he should hand the reins to someone else cause his work was suffering - while he was signing my issue of Cyborg - LOL).

Claremont did a good job with the Paul Smith drawn stuff as well (Though I could have lived without Yukio, dispise Rogue, dislike Wolverine and hated Storm's mohawk period - I prefered her as a goddess type). Even with all my dislikes. I thought he did a great job writing it. Course I quit during the whole Maddy thing. Ugh!

I think during the days of Marvel Team-Up and Two-N-One... both the Spider Man/Thing and whatever guest star were usually PCs. Though I am sure I could break it down to a case by case based on story and character.

What about Villains as PCs?
Super-Villain Team up seemed to spotlight villains.
I could see a case of someone playing the role of villains if you bent the campaign to that angle.
Though in DC's Secret Society of the Super-Villains... Captain Comet and whatever guest stars would be the PCs and not the villains.

G7

On the Super Friends cartoon...

Strong PCs: Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, and Aquaman (yes, Aquaman!)

NPC: Robin. He takes few actions on his own. I wish they had given him more to do w/out Batman. (BTW: Robin from Earth 2 is the Best!)

PCs: Apache Chief and Samurai. Sure they were brought in as affirmative action recruits, but they were full characters with a lot of indeependent thinking. I'm not going to penalize them fer having tokenized names and accents.

PC: Atom. Yes! He appears only a handful of times, but gosh the guy tries hard. With him, I think the GM made sure that any mission he was part of had a chance of having something for him to do.

Twin-PCs: The Wonder Twins. And I'd see them as controlled by two player characters, since what they choose to turn into doesn't always jive.. The players get along well, though. Gleek is an NPC pet controlled by a generous GM who gives Gleek the benefit of the doubt.

Black Vulcan. Poor Black Vulcan. He was the first hero I translated for my Super Friends thread/site. He could have been a PC, but he lacked the imagination and depth of the others. Probably an NPC (against my wishes, though).

Hawk-NPCs: Hawkman (no imagination on the show). He was disappointingly a fill-in-the-blank character. Hawkgirl was definitely a NPC, controlled by an asleep-at-the-wheel GM.

Green Lantern: probably a PC, with a GM who handled his yellow-weakness inconsisntely.

Flash: his powers were all over the map on that show, making him perhaps even less playable than Superman. Probably a NPC.

Green Arrow was an NPC brought in to save the day during an amazing 1973 episdoe.

Rima (the Jungle Girl) was an NPC. And not a great one at that.

BTW: If you have a player as strong as Superman, take some advice from the Super Friends show and simply give many of the villains a type of paralysis/transmutation device that removes much of his power. It happened all the time on the show, even w/out any Kryptonite. Introducing giant monsters for Superman to tackle while everyone else does other things seemed to work too.

Star Trek: The original series!

PCs: Kirk, Spock, McCoy

PC: Yeoman Rand. Yes!!!!!!!! She's a star player on season 1. Then leaves.

PC: Sulu, 1st season. The boy is smart and clever and interesting on the 1st season. Then he turns into an NPC on seasons 2-3. Poor guy.

NPCs: Uhura and Scotty (sorry, folks--y'are just too predictable).

NPC: Nurse Chapel, largely used as a foil to McCoy and sometimes Spock.

Fer all of his personality, I think Chekov is consistenly treated as an NPC.

The Atom episodes are available on the All-New Supe Friends Hour DVDs. Note the weakness I gave him in my write-up: www.superfriendstats.blogspot.com

Wendy and Marvin weren't worth mentioning. One of my friends suggested that I add them to my site. But they aren't worth the energy.

The updated Justice League animated series definitely treats Hawkgirl as a PC. Good fer her!

I like the original Doom Patrol but haven't read enough of their zany adventures to determine whether Chief and Beast Boy were player characters or NPCs--or assess any of the others. I have a soft spot for them as a team, even though--at least in theory.

Not really comics... but Yeah I can see some of your points.
Though I guess there is little difference in reviewing the differences between fictional Super hero stuff or it's animated counterparts (and RPGS) and not include live action fiction as well... they still spin around the same rules that one would used to apply who is a PC and an NPC.

G7

SuperFriend wrote on Sep 27^th, 2009 at 1:57am:


Exactly; there's even a cross-over comic that has the Original Series characters side-by-side with the X-Men!  I bought it years ago, but plan on reading it again (as my wife picked it up a week or so ago at a garage sale or second hand store).

Guardian7 wrote on Sep 28^th, 2009 at 4:00pm:



During the classic-Satellite years, I'd peg the original seven as PCs.

Snapper Carr was an NPC.

As new members came into the fold, Green Arrow and Atom were definitely PCs. Hawkman as well. Same goes for Black Canary and Zatanna.

Elongated Man (who I don't care for) and Red Tornado (who I like) would be my biggest pics for NPCs, based on the way I remember tham being handled during the series at that time.

It's hard to say with the JSA because they played like NPCs during many of the crossover stories. The biggest exceptions being Earth 2 Superman (a great character) and Flash. Within their own series, though, the JSA team is full of strong NPCs in game terms, including Huntress, Star Spangled Kid, Wildcat, and Robin, just to name a few.

I never felt any writer ever got  the Martian Manhunter.  I almost feel that he had to die, as he was just a concept, never fleshed out.

Creeper is another one that no one has found his voice yet.

SuperFriend wrote on Sep 28^th, 2009 at 9:12pm:

I have the action figure on my shelf, and it is a bit disburbing.

John wrote on Sep 28^th, 2009 at 9:14pm:


I have the Creeper figure from the Batman the Animated Series figures. They did a nice job.

Guardian7 wrote on Sep 28^th, 2009 at 9:55pm:

i'll second that.

SuperFriend wrote on Sep 26^th, 2009 at 10:40pm:


I totally disagree with you on these two.  Both are PCs in my book (though I would admit that O'Brien's player didn't always show up to play); Quark's player attended every session, but almost always had to leave early, so he hardly ever went on the missions.   

Majestic wrote on Oct 4^th, 2009 at 3:03am:


Y'know what? I completely get what you're saying. Miles O'Brien was a PC--just a little more mild that the others. And Quark did act like a PC, especially as the series developed.

On further thought, I also agree with others' comments that Martian Manhunter was often treated like an NPC in the JLA--even though he could have been a strong character.