In our game, perhaps because we haven't spotlighted and articulated many interesting uses for Iventing Points (outside of what the rules specify) we end up with many characters (far more than the average) becoming inventors.

In the comics, there were only the occasional inventors; the Reed Richards or Hank Pyms of a group were the exception that proved the rule.  But if you don't spell out ways to upgrade powers in V&V (like via power stunts), then characters can remain fairly static, without much opportunity to change.

If you're a "gadgets guy" or a magic user, then these things make perfect sense.  The rules as written give you an excellent avenue to build on your existing powers and add to your repertoire.

If, on the other hand, you've got a "standard" superhero (rolled via Powers or Skills), then you don't have much of a way of adding new powers and abilities.

Part of the problem with a long-running campaign - if not carefully monitored - is "power creep", where game balance can start to be sacrificed as PCs become too god-like and indestructable.  If everyone has the opportunity to invent Armor, build their Invulnerability to amazing levels, or add more Heightened Defenses, Heightened Attacks, or Power Blasts, then it becomes more and more difficult to challenge the players.  Villains become tougher and tougher, which isn't fair to the less powerful heroes.

On the other hand, right now many characters (in our campaign) don't use inventing (or their inventing points) at all, so I'm thinking of proposing the use of them for many different things (I can list some suggestions that have been made on other forums over the years once the discussion gets going).

Thoughts?

Majestic, totally agree with your point.
Here's what we do (some of this was culled from the old boards I think) :

Character Advancement Rules:

Every level, your character improves. Here's how:
First, throw away the V&V rules on Inventing and Training. All heroes improve in comics, not just the inventor types! Use this instead:
With every level increase, a character may add the equivalent of ¼ of a Super Power. If you really want a new big, full-blown super-power, you may save up Hero Points until you can afford it. Or you may buy new weaknesses to help offset its cost. See below.

The ways that superheroes get new abilities include, but are not limited to:

a) Training to get better physical super-skills or stats.
Comic Book Example: the X-Men in the danger room, Captain America in the gym.

b) Studying to learn new skills, areas of knowledge, or even powers.
Comic Book Example: Wolverine learns Japanese, Batman was constantly studying to improve his skills, Doctor Strange studied to learn new magic spells.

c) Mutation of an unexpected nature. Makes the most sense with heroes whose powers are tied to their DNA, like mutants or ‘accidental scientific’ origin types.
Comic Book Example: Chemicals trigger a mutation in Beast’s DNA, giving him blue fur.

d) Discovery of pre-existing powers that are latent or otherwise hidden.
Comic Book Example: Invisible Girl is discovered to have Force Fields, years after her origin event.

e) Finding a new device, object, etc. These can also come with Weaknesses or future plot points.
Comic Book Example: Spider-Man’s Venom costume.

f) Invention of a brand new power. Usually works best with super scientist types.
Comic Book Example: Ant-Man becomes Giant Man by inventing Size Change Larger.

g) Receiving powers from another being. These too can also come with Weaknesses or future plot points that are not always pleasant.
Comic Book Example: Frankie Raye becomes Nova at the hands of Galactus.

h) Modification of an existing Super Power, usually through practice.
Comic Book Example: The Human Torch trains to go Supernova with his Flame Powers. Cyclops learns to create a wide beam blast that lets him target an area.

i) Also: Heroes may opt to pay down their Weaknesses, eventually eliminating them!
Comic Book Example: The Thing’s Reduced Charisma, that had him acting as nearly a villain in Fantastic Four issues 1-50, is severely lessened thereafter.

Your new abilities should make sense with your character’s existing personality and motif.
Thanks.

Since I’ve modified the Inventing/Training rules, it means I need to make one more modification…

Luck Points!

Every Level gives (Charisma/10) Luck Points.
For example, if you’ve got a 12 Charisma, then every level you get 1.2 Luck Points.

Here are the possible uses of one LP:

•      Add a +4 Bonus Modifier to any single die roll (attack, damage, skill, saving throw, etc.) during a pivotal dramatic moment.  You must call it before the dice are rolled.                
Example: Luke closes his eyes and blows apart the Death Star by trusting in the Force.

•      Have a brilliant idea. Examples: Crack a code, create a code, navigate through a labyrinth, cut the red wire not the blue wire. You can also attempt a significant breakthrough in a chosen mundane profession: this could be a first novel for a freelance writer, a big Vegas weekend for a professional gambler, or a major published work for an academic.

•      Attempt to gain a clue or hint from the GM.

•      Create a “one-shot” invention.  If you’re a super-scientist or a MacGyver type, you can cobble together a new device much faster than a normal invention. The drawback: a limited duration of use, and you need the required materials and resources in order to build it.
Chance to successfully create a one-shot invention: Intelligence x 3%.

•      Develop a highly useful contact.  Examples: Commissioner Gordon from Batman.

•      Escape death.  Regardless of how far past the negative of your Basic Hits, your character somehow miraculously escapes death but is reduced to 0 Hit Points and 1d6+3 Power.

•      Anything else you can think of.  Run it by me for approval.

PS: Villains have Luck Points too!

Our inventing is basically situation based. Characters can use inventing points each time they level. They can use inventing points to increase their damage or accuracy modifier.

They can use them to increase damage on powers but maxed. Power blast does 1d20 Damage but a character can bump the die by one per level up to a max of 3d20.

They can use them to increase ranges, turn certain actions into movement only, etc.

They canbuild things, as long as it the parimeters of their character. If the guy is technology based, then sure he can build a gadget to do certain things. Building armor is a no no unless it was rolled as a power. If it's not rolled you can't have it.

Magic users use inventing to create new spells. As a GM I'll listen to any players ideas, arguments, or thoughts on inventing something, but if I feel that it will unbalance the game, or is out of character GM has the final say so. Alot of times I'll take suggestions but I'll modify them to make it more manageable. But the essence of inventing is to get more powerful as you progress in levels. It's part of developing your character, no one wants to stay the same thru many levels of gaming. Our group are veteran players and all pretty equal level. As they get tougher I put em against either tougher villains, or more numbers of lesser villains.

But basically I try to make players stay in the area of their powers. Mentat is a Psionic character. Mind control, psionic blast, telepathy, etc. Building a laser rifle or flame power device is just not in that characters direction.

Of course saved inventing points can be used to figure out situations, pull off something insane, etc. I have also dabbled with the idea of allowing using inventing points to turn misses into hits.

Another option I have in my campaign is Ronky from opponents unlimited. Ronky is a neutral gadget builder in my game world. He'll build things for heroes and villains alike if they have the cash. One guy in our old campaign had a hero with amphibian powers. Real cool character, wall walking, poison/venom, etc. He got a shoe endorsement through Nike to create the "Amphibian" shoe. He used this cash to have Ronky build him a "bat mobile" type car.

Also off topic, Id like to know what creative ideas people have incorporated in their campaigns. We have the Super Channel in ours lol. It's basically a CNN news type channel based solely around super powered events across the globe.

Doctor Foom wrote on Oct 8^th, 2009 at 7:12pm:


Yes, I recognize this; in fact I just went over this recently with some of my players.  Some of these even came from Dr. Mercury, who used to play in our campaign.

Good stuff!

I don't remember using inventing points for anything in our original campaing other than increasing ADR of armor, but I have changed things a bit in my latest campaigns, here are a few examples:

A character with Ice powers wanted to be able to create Ice Weapons, swords for HTH, Daggers for throwing, etc... it made sense with his powers, he generally did not hit as well with HTH, and did about the same damage (maybe a little more than an ice blast, but not a lot more), so I agreed.  He used one inventing point per weapon.

A character with devitalization, learned to use his power as a carrier attack, he drained 2d10 power with a HTH hit.  It greatly reduced his chance to hit, and he didn't have ht str, so the addition of some physical damage was not a major impact.  He also invented an area attack, which drained everyone around him of 2d10 power, save vs. Agility to avoid.  Didn't end up using it, but it sounded cool, and made sense.

I let them build on the powers they have, but I wouldn't allow them to build something that didn't stay in character.  Like a psionicsist developing a super strength device...