The thread about published hero stats http://www.villainsandvigilantesforum.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1258423413 got me thinking about how few of the NPC heroes in published modules survive beyond Level 6.

HIGHEST LEVEL HEROES
Level 7
Imperial, captured in Devil's Domain
Telecomm, captured in Devil's Domain

Level 10
Meganaut, 150-year-old robot, captured in Devil's Domain
Sensei, semi-retired martial artist

Since many criminal leaders and assassins in the modules are levels 7-10, I've recorded only those villains with more experience than any of the published heroes.

HIGHEST LEVEL VILLAINS
Level 11
Bennet Morrow, evil genius (Mad Scientist)
Contessa, member of the Primevils (Pre-Emptive Strike)
Rocker, member of the Primevils (Pre-Emptive Strike)
Spyder, leader of the Inhuman League (Most Wanted Vol. 3)
Tower, villain recruited into Tarot Masters (Pentacle Plot).

Level 12
Force, in his sequel appearance (Assassin)
Shee-Ariel, described as a world-known, world hated villain (Dawn of DNA)
Simon Shrew, the assassin extraordinaire (Most Wanted Vol. 3)

Level 13
Dowager, Japanese crimelord (Search for Sensei)
Overseer, crazed demon (Devil's Domain)
Purple Mask, U.S. crimelord (TOTEM)
Shugin, Japanese crimelord (Search for Sensei)

Level 15 (or higher)
Dr. Apocalypse

Level 17
Motivator, earth's most powerful telepath (Most Wanted Vol. 3)
Nostpheratau, vampiric villain (Most Wanted Vol. 1)

Level 19
Baron Victor Von Heinrich, 473-year-old vampire (Terror by Night)

Level 20
Devil, extradimensional villain during his sequel module (Devil's Domain)

polarboy wrote on Nov 24^th, 2009 at 3:08am:


I don't view it as they don't "survive beyond Level 6" so much as the vast majority of people (just like in real life) rarely earn that much experience over their lifetimes.

I mean, I'm sure a few don't make it along the journey, but there's probably quite a few that quit or retire as well.

Rick wrote on Nov 25^th, 2009 at 5:00pm:


Rick, it somehow seems you're assuming that there's some hostility or antagonism meant by my previous post, where I was simply attempting to continue the conversation about more experienced characters.

I know there are some that view the much higher, experienced characters as extremely rare.  And I agree that - from what we see in the published adventures - they tend to be that (pretty rare).

OTOH, when you run a long campaign, the heroes and villains tend to gain lots of experience and the Level (i.e., "experience point") curve starts getting higher and higher as the campaign continues.

So that's all my post was referring to - continuing the discussion about more "experienced" characters.  I think in real life, there would likely be VERY FEW "experienced" people (some SWAT-type police, grizzled detectives, and others might get up to Level 4-5, etc., but I think it's pretty rare).  But in a world of superheroes, or larger-than-life characters (even a Sherlock Holmes or James Bond) a few of them start getting pretty high on the old experience chart as they succeed on adventure after adventure.

Hammer wrote on Nov 26^th, 2009 at 7:31pm:


Yeah, we tend to have numerous heroes retire.  New PCs are pretty routine for a number of my players.  Only a few characters get up past 16th (we keep it as per the rulebook, with a huge expanse that you have to make your way through), but a few have.

So we've got a few 17th and 18th Level characters, but most are nowhere near that high.

Once the Levels of your heroes gets up there, it becomes tough to suddenly have villains showing up that are Level 12 or Level 15 ("who's this 15th Level guy we've never heard about?") so we have to use care to make it make sense.

If they don't come from another world or dimension, then our most likely high Level villains tend to be ones that we've had around the campaign for some time.  Every once in awhile a villain is introduced that is high Level that nobody's heard of, but it's pretty rare (and we try to use a good explanation).

Majestic wrote on Nov 26^th, 2009 at 7:21pm:


I'd give you that. In Battle Above the Earth, the security chief, Commander Hugh Manning, is Level 3.

In the modules, thugs often are levels 1-2, with the more experienced goons/ninjas up to level 4. We see that in Sensei, Organized Crimes, Greater Good, and Assassin. Probably more.