I've never added weight for Armor B to the characters weight for Basic hit calculation, but I do for Armor A... never thought about just applying it to other game mechanics.

Majestic,

I like the idea of Armor B adding weight, since - duh - it DOES add weight (but no other benefit besides protection IRL).

However, I think the formula is too generous for higher end armor. As you wrote, it is not a hard and fast rule, but I would like to make a suggestion or two as my premiere PC was armored and I loved me some Iron Man back in the day.

First, OHOTMU lets Tony Stark's armor just about double his weight to some 450+ pounds. (Maybe 2.2 x his weight). They even put in small "anti-gravity" generators in his briefcase to make it possible for him to carry it around. One way of saying this in V&V would be adding 2 lbs for every point of protection. In his case, that'd be about right.

Secondly, as you imply, it is really materials and manufacture that make the weight. So we could factor the weight up and down by the SSR of the material. Leather is so much, Iron is SSR 10, Steel 11 (IIRC), alloys even lighter but higher in SSR.

Lastly, armor should subtract from the PC's Carrying Capacity if it has weight - or is "dead weight" I should say. Generally, this not worth mentioning since even 100 lbs of armor won't generally change a PC's movement or HtoH assuming they have a slightly above average STR. But at 200 lbs and more, I can see it having some impact.

So my suggestion (and this formula can be modified by Inventing process, etc.)

Weight of ADR = Points of Protection/SSR x Weight of PC x 3%.

Mind you, I'm speaking out loud, but it seems to me the stronger the material, the less it will have to weigh to protect and the Size of the PC's body to be covered would make an impact in its own weight. (Obviously following the formula for Armor A here).

I'm gonna post this and then post again with some test examples to see if it works out.

Please let me know if you think it too complex or is really helpful. I just thought the GM shouldn't have to guess the weight with so many other duties and decisions to arbitrate.

Here's a formula I was thinking about after reading Majestic's first post. It makes stronger armor (usually seen as metal) weigh more than ligher armor (usually leather).

[ADR x 2] minus 50 lbs. = weight

Examples:
ADR 40 = 30 lbs.
ADR 50 = 50 lbs.
ADR 60 = 70 lbs.
ADR 70 = 90 lbs.
ADR 80 = 110 lbs. (approx. average)
ADR 90 = 130 lbs.
ADR 100 = 150 lbs. (approx. FIST)
ADR 110 = 170 lbs.
ADR 120 = 190 lbs.
ADR 130 = 210 lbs.


ADR 200 = 350 lbs.  Armada from Most Wanted. His armor is made of wood, but he looks like a walking tank.

I factor the organic armour into basic hits and carrying and such.  I don't mind armored guys being bigger and stronger.

I allow the added weight benifits, but I also allow the weight penalities.   You get the aglity minus due to the increased weight.  This is all figured out at creation so a heavy armored guy will be heavy, strong, tough and slow.   

Also, I have a house rule where each level your armor grows some ADR points equal to your new basic hit score.   So as you go up in level, you get heavier, tougher and slower.    

If you have armor in my game, you should train in aglity!

Majestic wrote on Nov 27^th, 2009 at 3:30pm:


Yeah, I used to wear chainmail at work. It didn't add to my carrying capacity.

Rick:
ArmorA: Obviously.

I'm talking ArmorB exclusively.

Skydiver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2009 at 12:33pm:


I think I see what you are saying, and I'd simply say no, for Armor B, it does not add to basic hits, but I could see it subtracting from Agility if it pushed their weight too high.  I guess if Rick's actually worn armor, I'd defer, as I never have, but it's a tough sell for V&V to give them the penalty but not the benefit... I usually go for it impacts everything good and bad, or neither.  In this case I could see it going either way.

In our PBEM game, one of the characters has technological armor that acts as organic armor, a unique idea I immediately fell in love with.  Some guys are just very creative.  His whole character is very cool, you guys should check his character out, even if you are not playing.  Cool concept, Silverstar, my teammate, or soon to be. 

Oh I thought I should add that I use a rule that says for every 10 ADR  a minus one is applied to aglity for purposes of intitative and saves.   So a 180 ADR armor would give you a minus -18.   
Harsh, I know but inventing points are being spent to create better and better armor.

Also,  you can roll more with armor.   If you have 40 ADR you can roll with an extra four points.  This way, even 20 ADR is useful.

Let me clarify,  bioarmor helps in carrying and hits tech armor doesn't.   Both penalise aglity. I missed that that this thread was labeled Armor B

Hammer wrote on Nov 27^th, 2009 at 5:43pm:

WRT Armor B, that's my understanding of the book and how I apply it, but I just wanted to see what others did. This is the house rules section after all .

SilverStar: The concept is pretty simple a mishmash of Power Ranger, Guyver Booster Bioarmor with a smattering of Ultraman (minus the size change) [uh huh.. simple!]. All based around Bionics.
So having rolled Armor B additionally because I was going with a device based character, it didn't fit with the rest of the power set, so I asked Dom if he could make it technological, but behaves like biological (regen ADR, etc.. bionics based essentially). I also dropped the extra powers I had rolled with ArmorA for simplicity's sake).

He didn't boost the character's weight (which I'm glad, but I think he would be wielding a much larger wallop than Dom would like, by consequence).

Skydiver wrote on Nov 27^th, 2009 at 11:48pm:


I know it sounds harsh, but I am talking about non hi tech armor.  Think of wearing 100ADR medieval plate mail and then runing an obstacle course.   Hi tech powered armor with servos and such would lower the aglity penalty.

Majestic wrote on Nov 28^th, 2009 at 7:21pm:


That rule always sounded a bit harsh to me. It sounded like "To penalize you for wearing hi-tech equipment, we shall now give your opponent an opportunity to de-power you EVERY single time your armor is helpful."

I somewhat reversed it. If the armor did NOT protect you  - say you have a 90 ADR and roll a 92 when hit - then that damage goes to 1) possibly knocking you out and 2) knocking out a device in your armor.

In my mind, that damage got through the structural integrity of the outer shell and began hurting you and your custom built toy.

Just my variation, you understand.

I loves me some armor!!

Well, I think I was saying the more damage your armor MISSES (i.e. gets through) the greater chance you are K.O.d and/or a device in your armor is K.O.'d.

In the official rules version, Armor acts a bit like a Sidekick who jumps in the way to protect you from a bullet.

Not only is he definitely wounded, but he has a chance of being disabled in some fashion. I can see that; I think it is valid view of what could happen when hi-tech armor is hit, but then the PC wearing armor is always going: "I got hit! Now let's see if -

1) My armor protects me
2) my armor does not protect me

If my armor does not protect me, I am either going to be knocked out or incapacitated, since I am a regular Joe in powered armor. I only have 15 hit points. Good, but not good enough for a 20 point power blast.

If my armor protects me, then

1) It will lose protective value automatically. My next opponent will get a +20% chance to harm me.
2) There is a 1 in 5 chance one of my devices go out. I hope its not anything I use offensively in battle. Or defensively for that matter.
3) I have to spend $$ to repair it. Time will not heal this puppy.

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Man, I sure hope my armor survives this battle.



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Personally, I gave all Armor an SSR to at least ameliorate this problem.