Poll
Poll Question: Which original defense types should return to V&V?
bars   pie

Body Power (matching Bionics)    
  0 (0.0%)
Darkness Control (matching Light Control)    
  3 (42.9%)
Form Change / Mutation (see below)    
  1 (14.3%)
Size Change/Larger (see below)    
  0 (0.0%)
Size Change/Smaller (see below)    
  0 (0.0%)
Special Weapon (defends as 2 vs. HTH)    
  0 (0.0%)
Special Vechicle (see below)    
  0 (0.0%)
Teleportation / Dimension Travel (see below)    
  3 (42.9%)




Total votes: 7
« Last Modified by: polarboy on: Dec 9th, 2009 at 4:35pm »
Normal Topic Which original DEFENSE types should return to V&V? (Read 2173 times)
polarboy
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Which original DEFENSE types should return to V&V?
Dec 9th, 2009 at 4:16pm
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The combat table from the original rules had many defenses that don't appear in the 1982 edition. Some of them were completely reworked into damage-based protection (Armor, Invulnerability). Others were covered largely by the revised evasion rules (Heightened Speed, Heightened Dexterity/Agility). A few didn't make clear sense (Heightened Senses).

Some had defense scores thate were identical to existing powers: Darkness Control = Light Control; Body Power = Cybernetics (Bionics).

Special Weapon had a defense type lowered the chance to be hit HTH down to 2 (but didn't effect the base chance to be hit by other attacks retained in the second edition).

I noted the use of Phantasmal Forces as an defense for Illusions A in a House Rules post. To drum up discussion, I've placed five of the original defense types below against the attack types that moved into the original rules.

I'll post more thoughts later about my thoughts about some of these defense types. In the meantime, please add your thoughts and observations!

DEFENSE TYPES appear in bold
Attack types appear underneath, with To Hit numbers below

Form Change and Mutation
(similar to Transformation and Body Power)
CP DR EC FP FF GC HH IP LT LG MP MC PR PB SA TR VP
00 14 16 11 16 08  02 12 07 13 13 15  13 13 09 00 06

Size Change/Larger
CP DR EC FP FF GC HH IP LT LG MP MC PR PB SA TR VP
09 03 10 20 10 20  06 19 07 15 09 10  04 20 06 09 03

Size Change/Smaller
CP DR EC FP FF GC HH IP LT LG MP MC PR PB SA TR VP
10 21 20 07 20 20  02 07 07 10 24 20  18 05 11 10 08

Special Vehicle
CP DR EC FP FF GC HH IP LT LG MP MC PR PB SA TR VP
08 14 15 08 14 12  02 04 06 16 07 15  13 16 11 08 08

Teleportation and Time Travel (Dimension Travel)
CP DR EC FP FF GC HH IP LT LG MP MC PR PB SA TR VP
03 00 03 06 11 00  01 02 03 03 10 14  09 03 05 03 02
« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2009 at 4:35pm by polarboy »  
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polarboy
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Re: Which original DEFENSE types should return to V&V?
Reply #1 - Dec 9th, 2009 at 7:11pm
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I haven't voted yet, but here are my own thoughts.

Darkness Control: This usually doesn't require its own defense type, but I could see a character training or using an inventing point to activate a "dark light" defense. I would use Light Control as the attack/defense type in the case of darkness-based Solid Energy constructions ("Darkforce" in the Marvel Universe).

Body Power: often doesn't require a defense; when it does, it wouldn't necessarily match Cybernetics/Bionics.

Form Change/Mutation: In general, characters who shapeshift don't require a special defense. But I could see using this original defense for characters with an unusual Body Power, Mutant Power, or victim of a strange form of Transmutation that might justify an added defense that doesn't exactly match anything else.

Size Change Larger and Smaller: I understand the original rationale, but the results are highly idiosyncratic here, with certain attacks exceptionally likely to hit. Giving larger opponents more protection against paralysis ray makes sense to me, though.

Special Vehicle: I could see giving some super-vehicles an added defense rating.

Special Weapon: I could see an added parrying/blocking defense added into some types of weapons--but this doesn't work as a default defense.

Teleportation and Dimension Travel: I see this working with portals, if the character spent an action or movement trying to block attacks. It might also work if the character could simply teleport back and forth to the same location to dodge attacks. Or with a character like Cloak, whose body opens to another dimension or is extra-dimensional in and of itself.
  
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Re: Which original DEFENSE types should return to V&V?
Reply #2 - Dec 11th, 2009 at 10:29pm
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I don't have the original book, so I'm not voting on these, but I like the ideas above.  Especially the last one, I had totally forgotten Cloak and Dagger... Cool V&V type characters, not soo super, but a cool concept.
  
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Re: Which original DEFENSE types should return to V&V?
Reply #3 - Dec 11th, 2009 at 10:45pm
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Hammer wrote on Dec 11th, 2009 at 10:29pm:
I don't have the original book, so I'm not voting on these, but I like the ideas above.Especially the last one, I had totally forgotten Cloak and Dagger... Cool V&V type characters, not soo super, but a cool concept. 


Feel free to vote even if you don't have the original edition--or to post your thoughts about powers/devices that deserve their own defense type.

I thought people might like seeing the above information for general reference, but I always enjoy hearing people's perspectives.
« Last Edit: Dec 11th, 2009 at 10:45pm by polarboy »  
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Re: Which original DEFENSE types should return to V&V?
Reply #4 - Dec 11th, 2009 at 11:27pm
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OK, I voted for Darkness control, I could see this almost as an Anti-light power... I've always thought it was a little weak, but this would make it as powerful as light control, which makes sense to me.

I like the teleportation/dimension power as you described, I've done a "combat teleport" invention for a teleporter before, but just allowed him to have a heightened defense type defense, subtracting from their chance to hit, but not really a defense,

As far as the others:

Body Power - I'd use the defense type that matched whatever defense the body power mimicked if possible, I don't see the need to have it's own, same for form change/transformation/mutant power.

Size Change larger and smaller have their own modifiers, the attackers range modifier is multipled (or divided) by the height factor to determine bonus (or minus) to hit, I always considered this a defense for smaller characters, and a penalty for larger ones who generally have many more hit points, kinda balanced things.

Special Vehicle would depend on the vehicles defenses if it had one. 

For special Weapon, I'd think using the alternate parrying rules would be more realistic than giving a defense for the weapon, thought I guess I could see a weapon creating a defense, but then again, I would use the defense the weapon mimicked.

  
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Re: Which original DEFENSE types should return to V&V?
Reply #5 - Jun 2nd, 2010 at 8:38pm
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This Topic was moved here from Hero Talk [move by] John.
  

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