I read the V&V upgrade on Jeff Dee's V&V website.  I never really noticed it before.  I think I have opened it before but never got past the CP section.

Tonight I scanned the whole thing.  The radical change in combat really surprised.

I liked the new defenses section and the skills/abilities.

I was wondering if you have analyzed and what you thought about it.  Is it really an Upgrade? version 3.0 in its own right, or does in join L&L as not V&V

Whoops!  I need to change my vote.  I did use his suggestion to swap the Agility and Strength hit point mods.

Re-reading Dee's upgrade, I think it has a similar feel to Living Legends.  It is, ultimately, the same reason my standardization of attack damage for powers failed.  You are taking something wild and free, and putting a cage around it.  Or some hippy statement like that.   

Oh I think swapping the hit point mods for STR and AGI to be a simple 'correction.'

I did not think it kept the flavor, but I DID like the new breakdown of attack types: Kinetic, Energy, Mental, Gaseous(?), Negative Energy.

Those I am keen on.

I had to go find the site again to refresh my memory, and see if there was anything in there that we have incorporated into our house rules.

For the most part, there's not.

I think I'll go back to some of the combat maneuvers to see if there's something in there we can use.  And years ago I did go through all of the skills listed in it thoroughly (as well as looking at those in many other RPGs) to make sure our own list of Skills was complete and comprehensive.

Other than that, I think that the rules upgrade (like Living Legends) tried to change the game too much (point build and all that), so much so that it lost much of what made 2.0 great.

Dee took V&V, a game that is very fly by the pants, and went for a point construction system.  He took the game and tried to make it too structured.  I like the idea of a skill system, and if you talk to anyone, they came up with their own.

Essentially, a lot of the feel of V&V disappeared in Dee's upgrade, and never even appeared in Living Legends.

Stacia wrote on Dec 27^th, 2009 at 11:51pm:


I don't know what he wasn't allowed to bring, but I know what he didn't succeed in bringing.  I ended up getting rid of my copy of LL, which was kind of odd since I collect superhero RPGs.

John wrote on Dec 28^th, 2009 at 12:33am:


Here's the link to the upgrade, available through the LL site.

http://www.io.com/unigames/v2rules.html

I'm not a huge fan of point buy systems.  They tend to try and provide game balance which is pretty much an illusion especially in a supers game.