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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds (Read 7552 times)
John
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Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Nov 9th, 2012 at 1:43pm
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  The use of blocks and such has always bothered me.  I don't want a lot of accounting and such so I did some house ruling and tweaks over the years.

So how about his, I pretty much already do this, but here it is written out.

To block, one needs some sort of fighting skill ( martial arts is the catchall, but akiddo, boxing, what ever you want to call it)  and you get a flat -2 to be hit when acceptable.   Like when fighting HTH you can block.  This will cost you 2 power and 5 movement points.    This block is in addtion to other bonuses you may have.

Parrying: Is like blocking but with a HTH weapon; Swords, staff, etc...  You need some sort of weapon skill.  You don't get the flat -2, you get the +to hit  of the weapon as a - to be hit.  So a +3 to hit sword will give you a parry of -3 to be hit.

Sheilds:  No skill is needed, and the first block cost no power, addtional ones do however as you need to move your shield.
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #1 - Nov 9th, 2012 at 2:00pm
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So to be clear, would you have to declare you are "parrying" as your action?  No reason one can't parry an attack then still attack, seems to be a normal battle.
  

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John
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #2 - Nov 9th, 2012 at 2:32pm
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You just tell me the numbers you get, and take off your power and movement.   It should be obvious when you can and can not parry or block.

I will tell you that you can't block.  But things like bullets or lazers, only a shield will help you.
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #3 - Nov 9th, 2012 at 4:50pm
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Ok so it's bad guy's turn and he takes a swing at me. I am holding my sword and have swordsmanship so when you ask me my minuses I include -3 and tell you I am parrying?

Just want to make sure you don't say I didn't declare that as my last attack (similar to evading).
  

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John
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #4 - Nov 9th, 2012 at 5:11pm
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You that works.   You also spend two power and 5 movement.
  

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John
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #5 - Nov 9th, 2012 at 5:12pm
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You also can't parry or block before your first action.
  

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Paul
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #6 - Nov 9th, 2012 at 7:50pm
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Why not? I can understand if you are surprised, but if you are in a battle you expected why can you parry as a minus to be hit?
  

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John
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #7 - Nov 9th, 2012 at 7:51pm
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Because if you go on the 12 phase and you are battling  Super Speedy who goes on the 1123th phase, you just aint fast enough to see it coming, much lest react.
  

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Paul
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #8 - Nov 9th, 2012 at 7:52pm
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Lies.
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #9 - Nov 10th, 2012 at 1:31pm
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i know Paul used this a few times last night. I think we can get a good try with this when we use the Mages or Vigilantes next time. Possibly the Norsemen or the one I'm really waitng for. The Feudal Japan scenario.

  
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John
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #10 - Nov 10th, 2012 at 1:32pm
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Yes, I am sure it will be a bigger deal with non supers.

But all the players need to keep track of their movment points.
  

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THE ONI
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #11 - Nov 10th, 2012 at 1:34pm
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I don't think it will be an issue once we get used to it.
  
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Paul
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #12 - Nov 10th, 2012 at 2:14pm
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I was keeping track but to be honest at 71 I was never in jeopardy of coming close to it.
  

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John
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #13 - Nov 10th, 2012 at 2:19pm
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True.  But did you take off movement for the points you rolled with?  and five for each block?
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #14 - Nov 10th, 2012 at 3:12pm
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To be honest I forgot to take it off for rolling. What was that value again? But I did take off for the blocks.
  

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John
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #15 - Nov 10th, 2012 at 4:36pm
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one MP per damage rolled.  1 to 1.
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #16 - Nov 10th, 2012 at 4:46pm
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ok that one turn where I took hits I rolled with like a total of about 30 damage so still not even close to the 71.

So I don't feel bad now Smiley

  

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John
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #17 - Nov 10th, 2012 at 4:58pm
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I am pretty sure that movement will be a bigger deal when massive rolling,  blocking and such come into play with a full scale fisticuff thing breaks outbetween two powerhouses, or two normals.  When its more of an equal thing,  this should come more into play. 

And don't forget as soon as you spend 1 more than half your movment, you spend 2 power.
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #18 - Nov 14th, 2012 at 4:17pm
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In a related note, how do you do blocking via evasion and concealment, i.e. imposing a - to hit on my opponent because I used that 2 PR and 5" move to dodge specifically behind cover behind cover that was within the 5"?

Curious for your interpretation, John. You seem like a reasonable GM.
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #19 - Nov 15th, 2012 at 10:33pm
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I am afraid I don't quite understand.
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #20 - Nov 15th, 2012 at 10:52pm
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If we are going to use the Vigilantes this Friday we should get a chance to track it properly.

Not sure if I missed it. How much movement for Evasion and is it just the one time per round or for each attack defended?
  
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #21 - Nov 16th, 2012 at 12:57pm
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Sounds like you can reverse engineer the movement used based on the minus to hit.

So if current power score is 100 that is a -10 to be hit. At 2PR for 5" movement that would mean 25" movement points used.

  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #22 - Nov 16th, 2012 at 3:09pm
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AlabasterKnight wrote on Nov 14th, 2012 at 4:17pm:
In a related note, how do you do blocking via evasion and concealment, i.e. imposing a - to hit on my opponent because I used that 2 PR and 5" move to dodge specifically behind cover behind cover that was within the 5"?

Curious for your interpretation, John. You seem like a reasonable GM.


I'm not John, but here's how I kind of read this.  When a character uses evasion, it just means they are jumping ducking dodging and weaving.  I don't let a character reposition themselves using evasion.  So just the normal evasion modifier to hit.

But, if a player can get some blocking concealment, then they get the benefit of the concealment.  An attacker can make a special attack to hit the target, or they can attack the target.

If they just attack:
* first does the attack roll hit?
** If not, then miss.
** If yes, does the attack do enough damage to penetrate the concealment.
*** If not, then miss.
*** If yes, then apply any penetrating damage to the target.  (Penetrating damage is however much damage exceeds the structural rating of the cover.)
  
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #23 - Apr 7th, 2013 at 10:20am
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Just to clarify a few things.

If you pick up  a sword and just swing it around,  you get the + of the sword to hit, but NOT the parry bonus.  You are not a skilled swordsmen.  You learn fencing, and you get to parry.

You then learn extra sword skills ( swordsmanship, expert...) you get a +2 per skill.  That bonus also boosts your parry.


Blocking,  How about this.  You are using your body to stop something.  You have to interrupt their attack, and you give them a minus to hit equal to your basic hits?   The bonus is, you do this while multiple attacking and totally screw with them.

Always tweaking.
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #24 - Apr 7th, 2013 at 3:50pm
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John,

Are the totals from the characters agility bonus, level, will etc added to the Parry?

I took it as the weapon bonus, skill bonus with the weapon as well as the abilites above were part of the parry minus
  
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #25 - Apr 7th, 2013 at 3:51pm
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Yes, all included.
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #26 - Apr 7th, 2013 at 3:57pm
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OK. At least I was right on Friday
  
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #27 - Apr 8th, 2013 at 2:00pm
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Imaginos wrote on Nov 16th, 2012 at 3:09pm:
*** If yes, then apply any penetrating damage to the target.  (Penetrating damage is however much damage exceeds the structural rating of the cover.)


This just occurred to me today as I reread my post.  I'm going to start including knockback against the item that is used for concealment.  So if someone hides behind a car, and the attack does enough damage to knock the car back, then that was a bad choice to hide behind.
  
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #28 - Apr 8th, 2013 at 2:49pm
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Imaginos wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 2:00pm:
Imaginos wrote on Nov 16th, 2012 at 3:09pm:
*** If yes, then apply any penetrating damage to the target.  (Penetrating damage is however much damage exceeds the structural rating of the cover.)


This just occurred to me today as I reread my post.  I'm going to start including knockback against the item that is used for concealment.  So if someone hides behind a car, and the attack does enough damage to knock the car back, then that was a bad choice to hide behind.


Two points:
1: Duh...
2: WHY THE HECK DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT YEARS AGO... (nicely done Imaginos!).

I have just been recording the damage done to the object the "knocked-back" character hits. Never thought of apply KB to that object. I mean, trash cans and stuff, sure - but not cars or concrete barriers or anything. But I'm not gonna track each brick in a wall... that might go a bit too far.


As for "Cover and Concealment" - just a weird thought... If the target ts 1/2 obscured, multiply his distance by 2 for the total effective range modifier to hit. If he/she is 3/4 obscured multiply by 4, if 1/4 obscured, multiply by 1.5. (bastardized from Size Change (B) rules - an obscured target is effectively "smaller").

Eh... maybe that's just nuts... I dunno...
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #29 - Apr 8th, 2013 at 7:53pm
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I'm actually surprised that the subject of cover doesn't come up more for us (as it's a part of other RPGs).  I mean, I've been playing this game regularly for over 30 years, and can't even remember the last time somebody used cover!
  
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #30 - Apr 9th, 2013 at 10:54am
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I only started considering cover because one of my recent players hid behind a car.  I was like "What?  Where is that in the superhero code?"

And by no means would I count individual bricks in a wall, but if the wall takes structural damage, I'd have (SR x inches of wall) fall on the character as weight damage.
  
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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #31 - Apr 9th, 2013 at 11:38am
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I'm trying to think of the last time a character hid behind something in one of my games... Could have REALLY helped on guy.

Happens all the time in other games, but not in V&V... Must be the whole "I'm a SUPER-HERO" mind set.

I have had players (in V&V and other games) who wanted to know where "Every brick in the wall" went. The answer was "Right at you!"

Maybe treat it like a grenade (shrapnel).
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #32 - May 2nd, 2013 at 6:08am
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Imaginos wrote on Apr 8th, 2013 at 2:00pm:
This just occurred to me today as I reread my post.  I'm going to start including knockback against the item that is used for concealment.  So if someone hides behind a car, and the attack does enough damage to knock the car back, then that was a bad choice to hide behind.


I'm imagining this person and it's hilarious. "Haha, Doctor Dread's power gloves will have no effect on me behind this car." BOOM!!! *squish noise as the car flattens him against that building over there*
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #33 - May 2nd, 2013 at 8:19am
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Hmm...

An itemized compilation of the PR & Movement/per HTH strike, parry, block, hide behind cover... and the penalties to be hit would be nice...

I'm having trouble following where all the bonuses and costs in PR & Movement are.

I didn't know until recently that each HtH attack made costs PR=2... still can't find that in my book.
  

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Re: Blocking, Parrying and Sheilds
Reply #34 - May 2nd, 2013 at 2:20pm
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They don't, normally.  But all second (and third and fourth, etc.) actions in a turn cost PR=2.
  
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