The poll limits the number of options to eight, so I tried to select a variety of powers that have special attacks built in -- but don't let that stop you from replying, for example, that Power Blast or Lightning Control or Flame Power or Sonic Abilities are the best offensive powers. 

It seems to me that Gravity Control works best when you make a target weightless as opposed to magnifying their weight.  I know this presents it's own problems (ie: the character pushes off a wall and slams into the gravity controller) but it seems to me that super-strong characters can overcome several multiples of their own weight and still come at the attacker.

Someone mentioned a few months back in another thread that Ice Powers is the "deadliest."  I tested this myself and realized that it *is* extremely deadly with the in-between turn damage.  It also has the added bonus of being a minor "Illusion B" power.

One thing I learned about Paralysis Ray from this forum is that it's *not* "paralysis."  It's actually STUN Ray.  When I first read the rules back in the 80's, I assumed that the wake-up roll was for regaining control of your body and *not* a literal wake-up roll.  I agree that it's very powerful because it can end an epic battle quickly.  If it's defined as truly "paralysis" it's not as powerful because the victim still has use of their mental abilities (and maybe a few powers such as Flight at the GM's discretion.)

I went with disintegration ray because it can do the most physical damage to objects regardless of SR. Not the epic killer paralysis is it can be very useful depending on the current team objective

Ironnerd wrote on Apr 21^st, 2015 at 1:20pm:


Are you using it with the 8 to hit or the 14?

Phrennzy wrote on Apr 21^st, 2015 at 8:23pm:


I went through the combat table and averaged the % chance to hit of each attack type vs each defense type. For Light Control, that's an average of 36% chance to hit (the highest was Disintegration Ray at 66%). Then I looked at the damage of the attack. For light Control that is 2d8, which has an average damage of 8 per successful attack. So, 36% of the time a character attacking with Light Control will do 8 points of damage, and 36% of 8 is 2.88 2.86 points of damage per attack (not just successful attacks, but all attacks attempted). Light control also has a pretty basic range, which is Basic Characteristic x 2.  Attacks with shorter range line Disintegration Ray had that damage per attack value reduced (by 50% for Disint. Ray, because it's range is half that of Light Control using a completely Average Character). Lastly, Light Control has a low power cost of only 1 per attack.

All this means that on average, a character with Light Control will expend 1 power point for every 2.88 2.86points of damage inflicted.

Why would I do any of this? I was curious. I had no idea what kind of results I would get, I had no thoughts or theories on the matter of which attack or defense power was the best, so I looked at ways to compare all of the various powers against one another.

I found out a couple of interesting points. First is that powers that make for a good offence don't seem to make for a good defense. Second was that powers that have bonus abilities (like Lightning Control or Flame Power) seem to give up some offence/defense capacity in favor of the added ability.

Power Blast is even better as it inflicts 2.94 damage per power point expended, but it wasn't on the list. Power Blast also has a better defense than Light Control, but Light Control has other abilities (blinding flash attack, and light for mundane uses).

None of this takes into account awesome powers like "Paralysis Ray" that hit's about 52% of the time and knocks the target unconscious, thus taking him out of the fight. This only measures damage inflicted per power point expended on attacks.

Power Blast            2.942
Light Control            2.862
Sonic Abilities            2.319
Disintegration Ray      1.649
Lightning Control      1.135
Flame Power            1.077
Vibratory Powers      0.554
Chemical Powers      0.402
Transmutaion            0.366
Ice Powers            0.093

Edited:

Oh, "8". I am guessing the "14" was in the old printing from the 1980's. I retired mine when I got the new printing a few years ago.

Edited:

And my math was wrong, the average roll for 2d8 is 9, not 8. Which makes light control slightly more powerful, giving it an averaged 3.219 points of damage per power point spent on attacks, moving it above Power Blast.

Thanks for the correction.

GAGH!!! AGAIN! I used "10". Average on 1d20 is (1+20)/2 or 10.5. Except for having Power Blast and Light control swapped, I have stuff in the right order, but some numbers were off. Light Control does more damage per power point spent on attacks than Power Blast (0.130 points)

Again - thanks to Phrennzy for keeping me honest.

Taking range out of the equation does move things around a bit, basically giving a boost to shorter-ranged attacks. PB moves to the top of the hurt pile. It's simple, direct, and does some nice damage. Light power is a bit more useful, better range, more utility, a bit more damage, but less defensive ability.

It all depends on what kind of character you are trying to create. In "reality" (game reality, that is), no power stands alone. All powers are part of a system we call a Character.

I agree totally.

There is a lot more to the powers than you see at first glance.

I really don't think there is a "Best power", but it's always fun to discuss the pros and cons of the various powers.

I am amazed at the minutiae you guys get into in your analyses of the various powers, though.

I see Phrennzy beat me to the punch on the average damage issues.  And I think it's important to note that Range is pretty much a non-existent matter, being as 99.99% of the time it doesn't even factor into the equation.  In thousands and thousands of games of V&V over three decades plus, I struggle to remember if there's ever been a single incident of Range even coming up; all told I could count on one hand the number of times it ever has.

I don't think I've ever seen Power Blast used as a defense, either, even after we incorporated the "Counterblasting" rules years ago.

And I think Power Blast would be taken by players 99 times out of 100, as it's just so much better in so many ways (I can only remember one PC with Light Control over the years. and I think he might have had Light Control x2).  Not only is the damage better (10.5 as opposed to 9, on average), but it's way, way more accurate and also has that really low Power cost.

Matt wrote on Apr 25^th, 2015 at 10:19am:


We do roll randomly for powers (though we've even tweaked those rules, and have a few powers that are chosen), but I've only "played myself" once (maybe twice) in the thousands of times I've played V&V.

From polls we've done here before, it seems that the actual 'playing yourself' contingent is a pretty small minority.

Just about all these, when used properly, are extremely good powers to have offensively.  But one power one of my characters has, that has proven to be extremely powerful in a "defensive" way is devitalization ray.  Especially when used in multiple attacks, this can drain an enemies power extremely quickly. Also attacking as paralysis ray, it seems to hit a lot.

For general utility, I still say Power Blast because of everything Majestic said.

Lord Inar wrote on May 13^th, 2015 at 3:23pm:

That's funny, that is.  Where's the Like button?