Frankly I can see nothing I would actually change.

I see the game as being nearly as perfect as it can be, just the way it is.
Just allow others to tweak it where they feel they NEED to and let it all alone.

Only thing I can think of... is I wish there was an easier way to do 3dimensional combat (I.E; chara in flight), though I personally see no solution (with my limited mental facilities... LOL).

Frankly... V&V actually ruined comics for me (Not really... but I mean the science of comics).

Just because of things like trying to make up chara like Wonder Woman, Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter (including Marvel chara)... In game terms... with a set of rules, I learned just how incredibly powerful and unstoppable they are compared to normal humanity.

It changed my method of writing and drawing stories. Because the psuedo-science of game play makes an actual (though fictional) enviroment to play these said chara (created based on the information given quite accurately by the Comic companies themselves) in a basic human enviroment, interreacting with all the elements that make up the world: structure ratings, velocity, ramification of object weights, knockbacks, underwater, vaccums etc..., not to mention the a glimpse at the social end of the world of super powered humans.
From it's totally down to earth street level crimes to those whopping momments of cosmic Primordials and Devils.

For all the games out there and the ones I have played.
Honestly... nothing seems to hold a candle to this game.
In it's simple way of play and easy creation of characters.

...It will always be the torch of Pinnacle gameplay in this genre.



G7

I guess I could see an expanded power list.

The inititive works absolutely fine for me.
I like the phases and how if you actually calculate the fights... they are extremely fast (Like real fights... trust).
The problem with initive lays more in the fact that it is cumbersome. You have to write in all the potential chara involved.
I have to admit... the only time I every used the inititive roll (d10 additive) was on the first round of the fight (if they surprised)... after that. It was all Agility -15.
Fast chara/npcs/people moved first... like in reality.

Far as skills go... I am not so sure about that. I think that might make it too cumbersome. You can just base a skill on int, agi, str, chr, maybe Inventing percentage or possibly a combination (using D20/%die).
It all falls to the PC/NPCs areas of knowledge (Background).
But it truely is up to the GM/PCs of the game as to what they want to add. I believe there are a bunch of skills listed for Dee's LL game.

I think your right about the character generation methods. I hadn't thought about that. Just so long as it is fair and equal.

Your also right about the number crunching. I had become VERY skilled at doing... but at first it was incredibly cumbersome (Though no less than my 1st Ed AD&D... which had all the separate combat charts for each type of chara class).

I think the actual attack chart needs to be revised a bit... some of the powers hit with incredible ease while others don't.
Power Blast/Force Field hit with a 16 or lower. Whereas Telekinesis hits as HTH (though entirely invisible), I think it should hit as easily as FF does. Actually all of the instantaneous lances of power should hit about the same. I don't believe that mental abilities should be so low on the list either.
It is more a matter of the saves that are the important aspect of some of those abilities. They should be able to hit...
I don't believe that Cyclops' optic beam should be able to hit any more readily than Marvel Girl/Phoenix's telekinesis, Ice Man's ice beams, Magneto's Magnetic bursts, etc...
Frankly with the game having a Attackers XP Lvl and Defenders XP Lvl... a lot of the powers listed could have been numbered a LOT lower (showing inexperience with abilities)... thus making for chances to miss at less experienced levels... and allowing for the Att/Def XP lvl to play the important roll it should.

Okay... so maybe the game does need a few changes... but I personally would never accept it getting bogged down with more rules.
Which I personally feel skills will do... and that comes from the GM side of the game... I have to be aware of ALL skills of EVERY NPC in the game. That means expanded character sheet and more time (possibly) examining the sheet as I seach for said skill.
Whatever decision would ever be made to alter the game... should only make gameplay easier, if the game were ever made into a 3rd Ed V&V game.

G7

Well as far as the attack chart goes... there has to be something that reflects level of experience vs others.

I think it is still more reasonable than the actual POWERS attack chart which seems to bounce all over with powers that should have the same attack number (Yet don't).

New game systems may not have actual attack charts... but they do have attack systems. They work no differently than the originals do in my mind (it is more about becoming competent with the system... at least in my mind). Though I did have to redesign the attack screen so that EVERYTHING I needed for high speed combat was there and the more moot things were placed on the backsides.

Charts are kind of hard to slip past.

A lot of games nowdays allow for PCs to roll their own rolls... I think that detracts from them playing their characters (I prefer for PCs to concetrate solely on their character and upcoming actions than having to roll dice - or whatever they are using).
I know a few years ago, my original core group wanted me to GM again... I said I would... but I said I would handle the rolls (Some of them groaned)... but that is the way I play. Though any true GM knows why.

Somewhere I have a modified reactions chart that I swiped from the GURPS system that is fantastic for doing reactions based on the situation.
I always felt Charisma should play a larger role in superhero games than any other. Only because in most comics people tend to listen to heroes.

Irregardless of anything... I still stand firm that V&V is still one of the best systems and tends to capture the feel of super hero comics the best (Even if it's methods are considered antique by today's standards).

G7

I totally apologize if you think I was saying you were stating it was a bad system. That was never my intent.
You would not throw out the wonderful ideas and suggestions you did if you honestly felt it was a bad system. You obviously could spend your time on some other subject matter instead of being here, if it wasn't for your love of the game (well... I assume you love it... lol).

What I said also applies to all the stuff I was suggesting too.

...and yes... you are right. The games were modified by Mods (it seems at least every other one in some capacity).

Again I apologize if you think I meant that in a derogative way. *Wink*

G7

I've created a workbook of spreadsheets that calculates all of the basics... You enter the basic characteristics on the first sheet, and it creates an initiative sheet which lines up who attacks when, a to hit chart that calculates all the basic to hit numbers, It even creates a print out sheet to track hit points, power points, and ADR/Invulnerability.  There is a sheet at the back that calculates base experience and rewards as well. 

I've been kicking around the idea of creating a Grid type program to track movement.  I'm imagining something like the movement in the X-Com games if you've every played those.  Once you get the mag armor, they can fly... I haven't actually started creating it.  I hate to say it, but I think it would probably only be attractive to some current fans like us.  I've talked to my kids about it, and they are so ingrained into the modern technology that something basic like that is not appealing to them.  They were raised on Halo and don't see the attraction of role based video games... although they do like the cardboard cutouts, more like a board game.

There are plenty of great ideas in the House Rules section of this site.

My thoughts seem to be in sync with the general consensus here.

I would switch the hit mods of Strength and Agility. I think Strength should be a larger factor than Agility in determining hit points.

I'd also like to make combat faster. A fight of two super teams can take a full session, leaving little time for investigation, roleplay, and other non-combat fun.

High Agility and Heightened Speed should be defanged, or else their actions better sewn into the regular combat so everyone doesn't have to twiddle their thumbs through the speedster's first 3 actions.

Skill system of some kind. I like tying it to areas of knowledge.

Clean up some of the power rules, like Gravity Control.

Make it somehow possible to randomly generate the kind of super strong powerhouses that dominate comicbooks.

Its in the rule book.  Divide the Movement rate by 4.4 and you get mph.

Thanks for the input gents, I've got a list of changes that I think would either improve game play, or just because I think they'd be fun. Once I consolidate them all, I'll post them here.

Doctor Foom wrote on Sep 19^th, 2009 at 10:03am:


See my comments about calculating out the "to hits" ahead of time found here:

http://www.villainsandvigilantesforum.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1253820006

for a great way to speed up combat, Dr. Foom!

And I've made myself a homemade "Brick Chart" (a random generation table having the stuff bricks usually get), though I've only used it a few times, and don't consider it part of the "official" house rules of our game.

I decided to post screenshots so you can see what I'm talking about...

Here is the setup screen, it has a lot of the character information, this one is from the initial battle with the Crushers at Crusader Citadel.

It still needs a little work, but the basics are there.

Next is the to hit table.  If a character has multiple attacks/defenses, you can create additional entries on the spreadsheet to see how they affected by someone else's attack/defense.  It does not include special defenses, like heightened defense, or weakness detection, those are handled on the combat sheet.

Lastly is an experience chart, it automatically calculates base experience, and gives the chance for a reward, though that's usually something I decide.  Based on the adventure.

You're welcome!  Great stuff, Hammer!  Your stuff looks very similar to mine, only difference being I do it all by hand and yours is all polished and professional looking from the computer.

Great stuff!!!   

Very nice Hammer.
It is so much cleaner looking than the scraps of paper back in the day! LOL

G7

In addition to reinstating some of the powers and charts from the original 1979 rules, I would recommend the following expansions to the 1982 edition:

Add more examples of variant and wildcard powers/devices.

Rename Mutant Power. I've met a number of intelligent players who still can't get beyond the name, inferring that the power makes their characters mutants.

Include further information about how security clearance can work in the game.

Use many of the optional rules from the modules/sourcebooks about adventuring in creative settings (e.g. underwater and in outer space).

Build rules for fire-fighting, and incorporate rules from the modules/sourcebooks for other hazardous threats (e.g. insect swarms, quicksand, death traps).

Provide guidelines and for building and financing hero/villain headquarters.

The Cougar wrote on Oct 16^th, 2009 at 9:27am:


While I'm totally cool with whatever house rules people want to use (I'm of the "if it works for you, go for it" frame of mind), to me those charts are one of the best things in the game.  I really have a blast 'rolling up characters' all the time, and I know many people who love to do it, even making characters they'll never even use.

So not that you couldn't improve upon it or make changes, but to me it works fantastic as it is.

The Cougar wrote on Oct 16^th, 2009 at 9:27am:


I'd like to see what you're recommending.  One of the things I've always tried to get my PCs to do is create balanced characters.  I've tried forcing them to roll of of certain tables, for example you have to roll two skills... this sounds like what I was looking for. 

I'm guessing Super Powers would be powers that have attack, defense, and some bonus, like Flame Powers/Ice/Lightning, maybe Weather Control? 

The rest falling into either Attack, Defense, and Skills...