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What changes would you make to V&V (Read 6201 times)

Skydiver Teen Titan Offline Posts: 132 Joined: Apr 19^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #35 - Oct 20^th, 2009 at 8:07pm	Print Post
	The Cougar wrote on Oct 19^th, 2009 at 9:40pm: Yes, that is what I mean. I will try to get it up this week. You know, I keep getting these emails about erectile dysfunction, if you want I'll pass them along.


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Majestic Justice Leaguer Offline Guardian of Earth Posts: 5179 Location: Seattle Joined: Jun 8^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #36 - Oct 21^st, 2009 at 1:07pm	Print Post
	Skydiver wrote on Oct 20^th, 2009 at 8:07pm: The Cougar wrote on Oct 19^th, 2009 at 9:40pm: Yes, that is what I mean. I will try to get it up this week. You know, I keep getting these emails about erectile dysfunction, if you want I'll pass them along. What's too funny is that my first thought was to post something along these lines as well when I read this, Stephane!


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Skydiver Teen Titan Offline Posts: 132 Joined: Apr 19^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #37 - Oct 21^st, 2009 at 7:41pm	Print Post
	Majestic wrote on Oct 21^st, 2009 at 1:07pm: What's too funny is that my first thought was to post something along these lines as well when I read this, Stephane! Good! Another with a fine sense of humor, I see!


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The Cougar Avenger Offline Roll 1d20 against ... Posts: 438 Location: McKinney, TX Joined: Oct 4^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #38 - Oct 22^nd, 2009 at 8:48am	Print Post


	V&V character creation is too much fun. - Doctor Foom Megalopolis PBEM http://vav-megalopolis-pbem.blogspot.com/
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Hammer Justice Leaguer Offline Stranger in a Stranger Land Posts: 528 Location: McKinney, TX Joined: Aug 17^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #39 - Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 8:09am	Print Post
	Guardian7 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2009 at 12:27pm: The inititive works absolutely fine for me. I like the phases and how if you actually calculate the fights... they are extremely fast (Like real fights... trust). The problem with initive lays more in the fact that it is cumbersome. You have to write in all the potential chara involved. I have to admit... the only time I every used the inititive roll (d10 additive) was on the first round of the fight (if they surprised)... after that. It was all Agility -15. Fast chara/npcs/people moved first... like in reality. Does anyone have any alternate rules for large group combat... Right now, we're engaged in a battle with 20+ combatants, and things are really bogged down. By the time the PC's go (they have pretty low Agilities 12/13 and 15) they've pretty much forgotten who is fighting whom... I tried having all the thugs go at the same time, at least those with 15+ agil's and then everyone on the second action. I also tried having all the villains go the same way, team at a time instead of individuals. I like the idea of not rolling initiative every turn, makes things a little quicker. Anyone have anything else?


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Majestic Justice Leaguer Offline Guardian of Earth Posts: 5179 Location: Seattle Joined: Jun 8^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #40 - Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 1:10pm	Print Post
	Hammer wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 8:09am: Guardian7 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2009 at 12:27pm: The inititive works absolutely fine for me. I like the phases and how if you actually calculate the fights... they are extremely fast (Like real fights... trust). The problem with initive lays more in the fact that it is cumbersome. You have to write in all the potential chara involved. I have to admit... the only time I every used the inititive roll (d10 additive) was on the first round of the fight (if they surprised)... after that. It was all Agility -15. Fast chara/npcs/people moved first... like in reality. Does anyone have any alternate rules for large group combat... Right now, we're engaged in a battle with 20+ combatants, and things are really bogged down. By the time the PC's go (they have pretty low Agilities 12/13 and 15) they've pretty much forgotten who is fighting whom... I tried having all the thugs go at the same time, at least those with 15+ agil's and then everyone on the second action. I also tried having all the villains go the same way, team at a time instead of individuals. I like the idea of not rolling initiative every turn, makes things a little quicker. Anyone have anything else? Not really, other than (as I've mentioned before) calculating the base "to hits" ahead of time. In other words, knowing that most of the Goons have to roll an 8 or less to hit really speeds things up. Calculating exactly what it takes each character to hit each character (though time consuming up front) really speeds things up as well (I do this for every adventure I run). One other thing I do (to speed things up) is make a large "battle sheet" ahead of time. I go to an office supply store and buy a large, columnar pad (with a dozen or more columns) and then I write out everything ahead of time, listing every character at the top, along with (for the NPCs) their Hit Points, Power, and Invunerability and/or Armor. For every character I also write down their Agility (next to their name) so I have it handy in case there is a tie with initiatives (I allow the PCs to keep track of their own Power and HP, as this moves things along much faster). Other than that, my recommendation is to try to avoid having so many participants, if possible. Having a 2nd GM to help with parts of your adventure (even if it's just keeping track of who moves when) helps as well (if that's a possibility). We actually end up having numerous battles with this many participants, as we have about 8 regular PCs and they end up often fighting swarms of bad guys. Most of our GMs are fairly experienced, though. I do admit that it is tough to handle huge groups like this, no matter how you slice it.


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Hammer Justice Leaguer Offline Stranger in a Stranger Land Posts: 528 Location: McKinney, TX Joined: Aug 17^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #41 - Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 4:12pm	Print Post
	Thanks Magestic. I've got an excel program that calculates to hits for me, so it's not as arduous a task as it used to be. I can even change powers they are attacking with on the fly, for characters with multiple attacks, or if that energy projector decides he wants to hit the mage on the head with a lamp. It also tracks initiative. HP/PP/Armor/Invulnerability alas have been difficult to automate, and though I trust my players, they seem to have inherited a cheater gene that I can't for the life of me determine's origination. I may try letting them roll for some of the NPCs, as long as they keep "in character," for each. For example the villains sidekick is not going to all of the sudden change sides, just because a PC helps to play him. When I played before we used battlemats, and figurines/or paper cutouts, but I haven't had much luck getting back to that... expensive. I think it is fairly unavoidable, you can't do superheroes with out the occasional group throwdown. I was just thinking with all of the alternate rules here, someone might have come up with something that worked.


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Hammer Justice Leaguer Offline Stranger in a Stranger Land Posts: 528 Location: McKinney, TX Joined: Aug 17^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #42 - Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 4:28pm	Print Post
	I do have another question as well. Several of you commented on changing the to hit rolls. This makes a lot of sense to me, I mean adaptation doesn't mean Space Man doesn't get hit by Flame Dude's attack, it just means he doesn't take damage (or as much) from it... I'd like to hear what you think would be a better system. I like the idea of heroes hitting most of the time. It really stinks to wait for the other 18 people to go, some twice, and then to miss, or need a 4 or lower to hit someone. I know for balance, there needs to be some differentiation, but how would you propose it be done? Someone mentioned a level vs. level basis, I don't think an aromor class system would work, and I don't want to make this into another game... it would have to work with current game mechanics... Looking for ideas.


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Skydiver Teen Titan Offline Posts: 132 Joined: Apr 19^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #43 - Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 6:32pm	Print Post
	Hammer wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 4:28pm: Someone mentioned a level vs. level basis, I don't think an aromor class system would work, and I don't want to make this into another game... it would have to work with current game mechanics... Looking for ideas. You have to remember that there is a lvl vs lvl adjustment. So for people of equal level, that usually pans out, but when your character is higher, regardless of the attack, you get a bonus. I never liked that chart. It was another chart to look up and that slows combat considerably. Many have reduced it to +1/every two lvls of difference. I personally like better to roll it in the training for level. You get another 2 level trainings (converting +1 to hit, +1 to damage), but the difference is that these are training "points" and you can convert them into any of the training options you regularly have (knowledge, +1 to hit, stat bump, power stunts, etc..) Some will increase their to-hit/damage, but others won't. So you can see why the nerdy types will increase their knowledge skills, while others will concentrate on power stunts, some will bump up to hit or damage. It usually pans out.


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Majestic Justice Leaguer Offline Guardian of Earth Posts: 5179 Location: Seattle Joined: Jun 8^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #44 - Oct 24^th, 2009 at 6:08pm	Print Post
	In order to help increase the chances to hit (and yet still factor in level a bit), we made the point breaks at 0 (incorporating "0-level civilians), then 1-3 (for novices), 4-9 (for more experienced characters, which puts robots, animals, etc. in the same category), 10-16 (for veteran heroes), then 17+ (since we keep the original chart as is, and it takes a great deal of time to make it to 17th level). So at most a character usually has a +/-1 or 2 (to hit or be hit) in our game.
	« Last Edit: Oct 24^th, 2009 at 6:11pm by Majestic »

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Majestic Justice Leaguer Offline Guardian of Earth Posts: 5179 Location: Seattle Joined: Jun 8^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #45 - Oct 24^th, 2009 at 6:11pm	Print Post
	Hammer wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 4:12pm: I may try letting them roll for some of the NPCs, as long as they keep "in character," for each. For example the villains sidekick is not going to all of the sudden change sides, just because a PC helps to play him. This is actually a great idea that does a number of things. 1) It speeds things up for you (as you don't have as many characters to manage). 2) It makes the wait much shorter for each player. 3) It keeps them more focused on the story (since they don't wait an hour in between their turns), as well as gives them a better perspective on the overall battle (since they're seeing it a bit from another perspective). In addition, this gives each player a bit of the feel of being the GM (even though you are really the GM), as they are controlling an NPC that is against the other heroes.


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Aramax Sidekick Offline I Love V&V! Posts: 15 Joined: Nov 17^th, 2009	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #46 - Nov 17^th, 2009 at 4:16pm	Print Post
	The only things I dislike about V&V are1)the animal write-ups 2)Charater generation(I make the characters for my players)


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Majestic Justice Leaguer Offline Guardian of Earth Posts: 5179 Location: Seattle Joined: Jun 8^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: What changes would you make to V&V Reply #47 - Nov 17^th, 2009 at 7:09pm	Print Post
	Aramax wrote on Nov 17^th, 2009 at 4:16pm: The only things I dislike about V&V are1)the animal write-ups 2)Charater generation(I make the characters for my players) I'd have a revolt on my hands if I took the HUGE amount of fun that is character generation away from my players (it's why they end up making new characters all the time, because they love it so much!). Gotta agree that most of the animals are way too much on the weak side. Per the V&V rules Aunt May's heart rate would not go up if she ran smack-dab into a grizzly bear! (since it would pose little threat to her)


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