I'm a stickler to the origin table in the rulebook when it comes to assigning Heightened Intelligence (and other exceptional abilities).

For all their brainpower, men such as Tony Stark, Henry Pym, and Victor von Doom have Heightened Intelligence A instead of B.

These geniuses had extraordinary intellects before gaining their superhuman powers and devices, and mystical forces and mutations did not help them tap into extra brainpower.

With characters like Moondragon and Dr. Strange, there's a case to be made for Heightened Intellignece B, due to their metaphysical origins (the Psionics/Magic table). With Prof. X, as well, because he is a psionic mutant, although type A still might apply in each of these cases. We'd have to see what happens when Xavier loses his mutant powers to know for sure.

There's no shame in Heightened Intelligence A. It's an extradinary skill (natural aptitude/talent/training) available to a small percentage of standard homo sapiens.

In the works of Arthur Conan Dolyle, Sherlock Holmes and Professor Moriarty would follow suit, along with Professor Challenger.

From history, Leonardo daVinci, Thomas Edison, and Albert Einstein are some of the many contenders.

Whether the score is a 3 or a 30, Heightened Intelligence B requires a metaphysical/mystical origin from the Psionics/Magic table, a Device, Magic item, or a a physical mutation/alteration from the Powers table. The Leader is one of the most obvious examples here.

When all's said and done, there's something to be said for making the A-list.

Good take on the power. I loved this post.

Interesting post.

If Heightened Intelligence A came from the Skills table, that means it was a learned or trained ability; a skill.

So were Tony Stark, Henry Pym, Victor von Doom, Sherlock Holmes, Professor Moriarty, Leonardo daVinci, Thomas Edison, and Albert Einstein (and Reed Richards for that matter) exceptionally bright children, or were they average intelligence at birth and then became geniuses later?

If it's the former, it argues the case for Heightened Intelligence B. 'Born with it' speaks to an inherent condition, similar to a mutation, more than a learned skill, no?

eLock wrote on Oct 24^th, 2009 at 3:57pm:


Then do you disagree with the position that you must train to acquire a Skill?

I could see daVinci as someone who was born different, with Heightened Intelligence B.
Mozart was a child prodigy, I could see something there as well.

eLock wrote on Oct 24^th, 2009 at 4:29pm:


Sure, but I don't have to tell you that V&V is designed to simulate comics, not the real world.

In the real world, I think child prodigies are born brilliant, which is what enables them to begin intense training earlier than normal. If I had to apply V&V to the real world, I guess I'd call that Heightened Intelligence B (an "innate" ability; born with it) followed by training in skills (small "s", like Music for Mozart or Mathematics or Langauges for another genius.)

One could argue that the real-world prodigy rolled a natural 18 on 3d6 for Intelligence. Then trained up his Intelligence another 2d10 through study. But in the real world, IQ isn't supposed to change as one ages. You can't increase your Intelligence. You would learn skills (small "s") and acquire knowledge. So Heightened Intelligence A as a Skill/learned thing can't ever equate to reality, imho.

But in comic books, people are born with Cosmic Awareness and Telepathy and Heightened Intelligence B at an alarming rate. Superpowers from the "Powers" chart in V&V are called "innate super abilities." I don't know if you need to be a full blown Mutant to have been born a genius in a comic book or in V&V.

There are an amazing number of geniuses in comics. So it's hard for me to believe a game system designed to simulate comics would only have one way to gain Heightened Intelligence A (the Skill chart) and four charts to give Heightened Intelligence B, if the majority of comic book geniuses have Heightened Intelligence A. It wouldn't simulate comics very accurately.

But again, really interesting subject. I appreciate your perspective and your thoughtful posts. Thanks.

Polarboy, or anyone who knows the modules: Is there a pattern of how Heightened Intelligence A and B are used in regards to character origins? Thanks!

John wrote on Oct 25^th, 2009 at 7:03pm:

Nice summary. That's how we always read the charts too.


Doctor Foom wrote on Oct 25^th, 2009 at 3:46pm:

There's no discernable pattern, as so many of the published characters list heightened abilities without specifying A or B--and the origin/background section for many of these characters is ambiguous.

For starters, Manta-Man from Crisis at Crusader Citadel is 6th level with Intelligence: 26. That is impossible in standard game terms without giving him heightened intelligence (which he doesn't have). And the module doesn't reveal how his score got so high.


Doctor Foom wrote on Oct 25^th, 2009 at 3:46pm:

Years of scientific research shows that real-world IQ scores, like almost all human ability, definitely can increase through training and practice. The notion that IQ "isn't supposed to change as one ages" was debunked. (This is one of my areas of study.)


Doctor Foom wrote on Oct 25^th, 2009 at 3:46pm:

The game doesn't require any degree of mutation to be born a genius because a genius-level IQ is possible by rolling 3d6.

Examples:

In Opponents Unlimited, electronics expert George Ronky has an Intelligence of 17 and is described as an "genius." ... He is a ready source of repair for broken hero (and villain) devices.

Organized Crimes tells us that a robotics expert with 18 Intelligence (54% inventing chance) was smart enough to build a robotic duplicate of Troy Harrow. The invented Robotic Body has 100% human appearance, weight x 2, Strength + 12, 45% internal repair in 3 turns (once per day), and built-in Life-Support: PR = 1 per hour, to keep Troy's brain alive inside.


Doctor Foom wrote on Oct 25^th, 2009 at 3:46pm:

Comments in the "What changes would you make to V&V" thread demonstrate that results from the random charts in the rulebook don't always match the distribution of heightened abilities that many V&V players see in comics.

http://www.villainsandvigilantesforum.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1253221207/4...

Three of the five villains in Battle Above the Earth each have Heightened Intelligence A, along with exceptionally different power/device/item/skill/psionics sets.

The A-version of intelligence does make a stamp in the published sources.

Thanks Polarboy. I always thought Manta Man's write up had a typo that omitted his Heightened Intelligence.

polarboy wrote on Oct 26^th, 2009 at 3:50am:


Really? You've just raised my IQ by teaching me that.
Seriously, that's fascinating. What level of plasticity in indicated?

Reed richards would have been born with Ht int A but His mutation added Ht Int B and that is why he is the smartest man in the world.  I remember reading that his flexibility was also extended to his thinking. That his Brain worked different than others.

I should also point out that it is possible to roll two ht int A's in the case of people like einstien.

eLock wrote on Oct 27^th, 2009 at 11:21am:


Neither do I. 
I see them as having been 'born with it.' Which is better met by the definition of "Powers" (an innate ability) over "Skills" (a learned ability). That's all. Thanks again.

Hey Harkker and Majestic: Great points about multiplying A's to get a stat worthy of a Reed Richards.

Polarboy, is real-world IQ elastic enough that one can study and train enough to double their IQ? Thanks.

Since I was the one who started this thread, I thought I might spend some time using my own intelligence to run some numbers.

In game terms, the average character begins with an Intelligence of 10.5 (rolling 3d6).

In game terms, Heightened Intelligence A yields an average bonus of 11 (rolling 2d10).

10.5 + 11 = 21.5.
That translates to an IQ score of 215, based on the rulebook guidelines. In the real world, there are adults with scores into the 220s. Experts estimate that some historical geniuses, including daVinci, may have had IQs around 220 as well. So the baseline results for Heightened Intelligence A actually fit real people.

The rulebook describes POWERS as "innate super abilities." The operative word here is super. In the Crusader module, Enforcer was not born with Force Fields; Laserfire was not born with Flame Powers or Light Control. Even within the modules, those born with their POWERS are probably in the minority.

Many of the non-mutant heroes created by Stan "the man" Lee and Jack "king" Kirby have "innate super abilities" listed on the V&V POWERS table. Yet Benjamin Grimm was not born with his "innate" orange armor. When they were creating V&V, Jeff Dee and Jack Herman clearly did not intend for us to draw that conclusion.

That means that the word innate above the V&V POWERS table is not synonymous with inborn (dictionary definitions aside). Rather, innate in this context distinguishes these super powers from devices, magic items, magic/psionics, and extraordinary learned skills.

Comics and the game show us that characters might be born with super POWERS from this table (like the mutant Angel from the X-Men has wings) or they might gain superhuman powers from this table (like Dreamweaver of the Crusaders gains invisibility, etc.).

Since we have to take a loose definition to the word innate, in order for comics and V&V to make sense, a loose definition to the word learned is only fair; even people born extraordinarily gifted must learn. In fact, research shows that perhaps half of all human intelligence is learned; not predetermined at birth.

In game terms, the average character begins with an Intelligence of 10.5 (3d6).

In game terms, Heightened Intelligence B gives an average bonus of 16.5 (3d10).

10.5 + 16.5 = 27.
That translates to a 270 IQ. And that score is a good 40 points higher than the highest recorded IQ score.  In other words, the default results of this super ability do not describe any real people.

Mozart is no exception. Was he a genius? Yes! Experts who've tried to estimate his IQ place it somewhere between 165 and 175 (about a 17 intelligence in game terms).

You don't need heightened intelligence to be a Mozart!

Now that, in itself, is inspiring!

Excelsior!

eLock wrote on Oct 29^th, 2009 at 4:02am:


Good stuff here, eLock (and quite interesting)!

As for Intelligence in V&V equaling IQ, I don't think it's spelled out that clearly.  I think there's a reference to Intelligence being one's innate knowledge, IQ, and the like, but isn't that formula (I=IQ) from some other game? (D&D perhaps?)

eLock wrote on Oct 29^th, 2009 at 4:02am:


I guess I'm just a purist.
Happy to agree to disagree. 

John wrote on Oct 29^th, 2009 at 9:21pm:


LOL John, you crack me up! From the stuff you and Oni post, you guys must have a blast!

eLock wrote on Oct 29^th, 2009 at 4:39pm:


Thanks so much, eLock!   

As for the IQ thing, that makes sense.  I just wasn't sure if there was anything "official" on it (I think the rulebook references "IQ" a couple of times, which certainly hints at it).

It certainly has been an active and well-discussed thread!

Doctor Foom wrote on Oct 30^th, 2009 at 6:56pm:


Hey, no joke - our (arguably) most powerful PC among the Guardians right now (Neutron) has Animal Plant Powers, and he picked:

Animal/Plant Powers: Mammal; Human.

I kid you not.   

eLock wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 7:04pm:

I said it before, and I will say it again: John and Majestic are also strong contenders for Heightened Intelligence A.

eLock wrote on Oct 31^st, 2009 at 5:59pm:


Yeah, it's a thin line between genius and insanity. 

Quote:

Are these stats based on real-world research too, like the intelligence notes? There's a circus strong guy in Organized Crimes with a 26 strength. We just ran through that module.

Wait--but he's 3rd level, so maybe that's okay if he trained in Strength.