I let the character with armor roll with one tenth their adr score added to what they normally would be able to roll with.

So if Tank had 90 ADR and 100 hits, the could potentially roll with 19 damage if he was hit.

It gives armor an extra "umph".

John wrote on Nov 16^th, 2010 at 9:55pm:


Would that be in addition to the mod I posted above, or is it something you've already implemented in your game?

John wrote on Nov 16^th, 2010 at 10:20pm:


So, do you think the Armor modification would work?

I would use one or the other, otherwise its too powerful.  But I would definatly use one of them.

Ranger wrote on Nov 17^th, 2010 at 12:42am:


I'm trying to simulate how I see armor working in a lot of comics. So I'm figuring it would work like a modified version of the SR rules, where if you don't do a minimum amount of damage, to the armor, each turn, they just blow it off. But, unlike Invulnerability, which would stay the same, armor would get weaker, and weaker as it takes more damage. And the rules that cover additional devices, built into the armor, would still be in effect. 

I think DSumner and John (the SysOp, not the hero in the example you used) are actually more concerned with "probabilities".

Armor absorbs damage on a percentage chance.  Die rolls typically roll about halfway (ie: d6 usually rolls approx 3, d8 usually rolls approx 4, etc).

This means that as long as you have an ADR above 50 the armor is going to be wonderful.  But as the ADR drops below 50 it's usefulness drops off FAST.

Let me give it some thought, but I definately agree about the SR should be capped at 30.

Another possibility, that takes into account Nemo's concerns (which I totally get), would be to still have an SR type rating, and then not allow damage from attacks that do that amount (or less).

Instead of SR (which is already used in the game), it could be called PR (Penetration Rating or Protection Rating, or something).  PR probably doesn't work either since the game often categorizes Power rates as PR.  How about DR (Defense Rating)?

I'm thinking it could be 1/10th of the ADR score.

So a character with 120 ADR would have a DR of 12.

But an ADR of 50 would have a DR of 5.

That way it's simple to figure out all the time (just at a glance).

I'm thinking that all amounts of damage up to and equaling the DR would be ineffective.  That way when a gun gets fired at Iron Man's Armor (which is probably 130 or something) he would ignore it (unless they do over 13 points of damage).

It does add a lot of power to an already powerful Power...

Majestic wrote on Nov 17^th, 2010 at 5:31pm:


That's pretty similar to what I have posted, but divides by 10 instead of five.

Oh my goodness. 100 damage? Did you clowns give behemoth 'roids?

Sounds much better. Does the IR (invulnerability rating) stay constant? Also does this mean you should +1d10 to the real Invulnerability?

Why don't we see the added hit points in Armor A or the powers in Armor B as appropriate compensation for Armors "inferiority" to Invulnerability

Wow! Really? a 100 points to the kisser in one smack eh?

Ranger wrote on Nov 17^th, 2010 at 9:59pm:


Were these questions addressed to me? If so, the IR (or whatever you want to call it), would be reduced as the armor was damaged. If a character started off with 100 points of armor, he'd have 10 points of Invulnerability. Five turns later, his armor has been reduced to 80, so he'd only have 8 points of Invulnerability. And I'm not quite sure I understand what you're asking in the second question.

Display Name wrote on Nov 17^th, 2010 at 6:14pm:


Honestly, I've used it for nearly 30 years as is, and it's always worked fine.  I understand, though, that having it completely ablative doesn't really mesh that well with what we see in the comics.

In other words, if Iron Man was laying there sleeping, and some children snuck up and threw tiny rocks at him for hours (doing the equlivalent of 1 point of damage each), but never hitting him hard enough to wake him up:

- In the comics (and the movies) Iron Man would still have his Armor at full strength.  Those little 1 point pings on his armor (even by much stronger bullets) don't really do anything.

- In V&V Tony Stark would wake up completely naked, as his Armor would be completely gone.   

Majestic wrote on Nov 18^th, 2010 at 5:24pm:



That is an excellent idea.  I like that.   I use it on vehicles, their hull is pretty much their structural rating, so why not armor?

Armor

1 Point of Invincibility(Like SR) rating for every ten points of Armor.

I would say the rating has to be put against the actaul attack and not the total attacks in the round like invulnerability would be. It seems the idea is to reflect the type of material the Armor is made out of or how well it is made. 20 average Joes hitting a 12" I Beam with wooden baseball bats are not going to do any damage at all to the metal because none of them are strong enough to damage it. Attacking together does not help. Just break the bats.

Try this idea.

Invincibility equals on tenth the total ADR.

The percentage roll against the total ADR tells you if the attack goes against the SR/Invincibility rating or against the ADR.

If the percentage is under the ADR but over the SR then the difference is how much the Armor takes in damage and lowers the percentage next time.

Each successful attack that goes over the SR is lowering the ADR points and therefore the percentage.

Example

Armor man has 80 ADR and gets hit with a power blast for 19 damage. He rolls a 60 and the first 8 points come of his SR. The remaining 11 points would go against his Power and then Armor. However he chooses. Whatever came off the Armor just lowered his percent to basically save on the next attack.

Example 2

Thug Man has an ADR of 40. He is basically wearing a chest protector and some leggings.

Joe guy hits him for 8 damage. He rolls a 42 and therefore the SR has no effect because he got punched in the face and not the chest where he is actually protected.

Same thing happens in example one as the ADR decreases. The opponent is knowcking it down and finding holes, therefore bypassing the SR/Invincibility, whatever you want to call it.

Sorry Dom yes I was asking you.

My second question was badly trying to ask how do we fix Invulnerability if we power up Armor in this way

Invulnerability will still be better even if Armor is powered up a bit. It's protection isn't ablative and doesn't need to be repaired or regenerated.

Just because you amp one thing up, it doesn't mean you have to amp another.   Some powers are more powerful than others.    I like that the game allows unbalanced players.  Its more like comics.    Thor is more powerful than  Tigra, yet they are on the same team.

What is bio-enhancement?

Okay, after giving this some thought, how about this. For every 10 full points of Armor, it would have a SR of 1. So if a character had an Armor with an ADR of 120, his Armor would have a SR of 12 and it would ignore any attack that did less than 12 points of damage. The Armor could still be damaged as normal (any damage that penetrates would reduce its ADR), so it'd become less effective as it sustained more damage. So if the character sustains an attack that does 20 points of damage, it ignore the first 12 points, and the other 8 would penetrate the armor, reducing its ADR to 112. One thing I would suggest though, is that GMs limit the amount of armor a character could have, so that things don't get out of hand.

Majestic wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2010 at 1:48am:


Whoops... sorry about that, it should be 12 not 8.


Majestic wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2010 at 1:48am:


I don't want Armor to be uber powerful, so I figure this should be a fair trade off.

Display Name wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2010 at 8:23am:


Correct, it's SR would be 11, but instead of the % roll to see if it would absorb the damage, it would work like invulnerability.

Ranger wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2010 at 5:48pm:


It would only absorb damage up to it's SR. So if a character's Armor had an ADR of 100, it's SR would be 10, and as long as it isn't damaged, it'll always ignore the first 10 points of damage an attack did. But, anything over the initial 10 points would begin whittling away at the ADR. So, if the character was attacked, and sustained 15 points of damage, the first 10 points would be ignored, and the armor would take 5 points of damage, reducing its ADR to 95, and its SR to 9. The next turn he's hit for 13 points of damage, and his Armor would ignore the fist 9 points, and sustain 4 points of damage, reducing his ADR to 91, and an SR of 9. While it would make Armor more powerful, I think it more accurately portrays the way you see Armor work in comics, and still remains playable.

I don't know. I think Dom's homebrewis fine enough, I just would continue to make the player roll %dice to see if the Armor actually absorbed the damage that got past the SR

A couple of months worth of testing is DEFINITELY the best thing!  Oh yeah, and testing the ADR would be good too!

John wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2010 at 11:25pm:


Let me know what they think.

Bumping this as I'm tinkering with it. I've tweaked the writeup and want to see how it works during game play.