Well, the concept is that if a character has an INT of ... 160, why roll to see if he can solve the NYT Crossword? Or if he has an AGL of 60, do we really need to roll to see if he avoids that suddenly-opening chasm? Some GM's would say "YES!" others would disagree. I would say "Yes, if it was a critical moment in the campaign. Otherwise, no."

And there are times when I basically flip Two-Face's coin.

It's the old argument of Role play vs Roll play, I guess. I pick the former.

Nicely played!

If only Abbot and Costello had played RPGs...

But seriously...

So it's been drilled into my head that an increase of "1" in a basic characteristic equals a 5% change on a save vs d20. This is, obviously, true. Why? Because Basic Char vs 1d20 is shorthand for "Basic Char x 5 vs 1d100". And we all know that saves vs a Characteristic may be optionally made on Basic Char vs 1d100 when things get harder. These two methods of rolling a save represent two ends of the same scale. The easier a task, the higher the Basic Char multiplier value, and the lower higher the difficulty, the lower the multiplier. Simple right?

It’s not explicitly stated in the rules anywhere, but after a bit of use it becomes pretty obvious that Basic Char vs 1d20 is an easier save than Basic Char vs 1d100. There are also variations mentioned in legacy adventures, like Basic Char x3 vs 1d100. It makes sense then that there should be modifiers between x5 and x3, and x3 and x1 (namely x4 and x2).

Basic Char x 5 vs 1d100: BASE Difficulty (Equals "Basic Char vs 1d20").
Basic Char x 4 vs 1d100: Trying – Solving NYT Sunday crossword puzzle (in pen?).
Basic Char x 3 vs 1d100: Challenging – Final exam in Algebra
Basic Char x 2 vs 1d100: Difficult – College Mulitvariable Calculus
Basic Char x 1 vs 1d100: Very difficult – Orbital dynamics

It turns out I’m not alone in thinking this way. I received an e-mail a little while ago with the MHG rules for saves and whadaya know? They called out almost the same thing. And here I thought I was being clever… Oh, well… Still, I don’t read any MHG stuff (because I submit only to FGU and need to keep things to their rules. I figure I get confused pretty easy as it is, so it’s best not to mix in too many other rules), so it’s kinda cool that we were thinking along similar lines.

Of course, a roll can be made easier or harder by changing the multiplier even more.

AMAZINGLY DIFFICULT: Basic Char x 0.5 vs 1d100
AMAZINGLY EAZY: Basic Char x 10 vs 1d100

Of course, not all rolls are “Necessary” (see my earlier post on that subject).

So how does this effect characters with “Really High Stats”? I’m glad you asked. Aside from the many benefits received from high stats (earlier post), the character receives a bonus to all of his/her save rolls.

First, our “Average Jo”
Basic Char: 10
x5 = 50%
x4 = 40%
x3 = 30%
x2 = 20%
x1 = 10%

Now for “Astonishing Lass”
Basic Char: 45
x5 = 95%
x4 = 95%
x3 = 95%
x2 = 90%
x1 = 45%

Finally “Captain Above-Average”
Basic Char: 20
x5 = 95%
x4 = 80%
x3 = 60%
x2 = 40%
x1 = 20%

As you can see, Astonishing Lass has a MUCH better chance of making her saves than Average Jo, and better chances than Captain Above-Average. Sure, she still maxes out at 95% (per the rules), but if the GM really wants to, he/she can just ignore the rules (let’s be honest, any “Rules Variant” is essentially guidance on how to ignore an existing rule - neither good nor bad), and go his/her own way (maybe use a different roll, or set Basic Char x2 as “base difficulty”).

Changing the floor and ceiling may also work:

<edit>
Basic Char x5 01-05 success, 96-100 fail
Basic Char x4 01-04 success, 97-100 fail
Basic Char x3 01-03 success, 98-100 fail
Basic Char x2 01-02 success, 99-100 fail
Basic Char x1 01 success, 100 fail
DANG IT! I knew what I meant to say, I just didn't type it up correctly. Sorry, people.</edit>

I still simply modify the target to match the circumstances. (Basic Char x"X") +/- "Y" vs d20/d100 works pretty well to fine-tune the difficulty.

Anyway, do whatever makes your game run best and produces the most fun.

Just so ya'll know - I have heard no rumors that a skill system is in the works for V&V (FGU side). The PDF in the above post is just something I typed up one afternoon a while back and decided to share with T-bolt. I have had other discussions about a skill system with other players and contributors, which lead me to the ideas contained within the file. I really don't think anything here is Earth-shattering.

As for the save mods... again, nothing Earth-shattering, just a quick write-up of some simple mechanics for saves.

Together, however, the two write-ups do show the benefits received from increased Basic Characteristic levels beyond the simple save.

Just to be clear, I'm not writing any of this as an FGU contributor, I'm writing all of it as a V&V player and fan.

I would call this deafening silence

I am beginning to suspect that saves versus really high basic characteristics is not all that common.

When d20 seems too easy and d100 seems too hard, I'm sticking with d30.

Well, I am getting a d30  - as soon as I find one in the right color.

To be honest, I use on-line die rollers, android dice apps, and even excel spreadshets to roll dice. I still really like real dice though.


I also keep in mind what Mr. Gygax said:

The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.
Gary Gygax
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/gary_gygax.html#DM5BPmd6La1c4ggi.99

I remember playing a session of some spy game back in 1989 or 1990 in Savannah. Two things happened that made me reconsider die rolls as being absolute. First I failed a "driving" skill roll. The GM rolled, consulted his tables, and announced that I had rolled a Lamborghini Countach. I could see a skid into a building, but flipping a Lambo? I don't think so. Second I stepped around a corner and took shotgun blast to the chest and died - on my first actual role-paying turn (I flipped the car on the way to pick up another agent). I died because that's what the GM rolled... That got me thinking - maybe the dice are not always right. Today we refer to this as the difference between ROLE-PLAY and ROLL-PLAY.

</soapbox>

I don't have the issue of the dice telling me a character is dead or stuff like that. I have learned from previous experience to flex. Heck sometimes  even roll a random die and pretend to look up a table - this buys me time to come up with a fun/nearly believable way out of the character's predicament. Kind of parallel to what you said, Polarboy, a lot of role-play happens in the face of a nearly impossible roll, or right after a failed save.

While in general I agree with the sentiments expressed here, I'm not sure that everyone agrees with this or sees things this way.  PC deaths are rare in my games, but they have happened (even in my four color Guardians game), and not just from doing something stupid.

Some games (and genres) are just meant to be more grim and gritty.  While it might not be appropriate for a character to die in one game, in another it might be totally acceptable and appropriate.  Some times (and in some settings), actions can have very harsh consequences.

I think the more important point is that the dice are there to add excitement and drama.  If characters know that they will succeed, no matter what, the game (and situation) loses a lot of its tension; the thrill disappears.

So even if you do things as written above, you want to make sure it doesn't look that way, as it has the potential to drain the excitement from the game.  Danger and negative consequences are parts of some games, and if the PCs don't have anything to lose, they may not truly appreciate the challenges they overcome.

As a long-time Dungeon master, a little secret I never let my players find out, is that, the only way I will kill you off, is if you act stupidly... or if i need a good old DM cleansing session (insert evil laugh here)

Completely agree.  There's been a number of deaths among the Guardians, and more than a few times it's been by the design of the player, as a way for them to bring their character back with all-new powers, look, and abilities (usually with a new name as well!).

In our last session, the bad guy (a major demon) was wiping the floor with the PCs.  Things were looking quite bleak for everyone, and my character, Compass - always a sarcastic smart ass anyway - decided to offer himself up as a sacrifice if the group would be spared.  The Guardians leader, Quiasar, offered himself up as well, but Compass persuaded Q-Man to let him do this (Compass had personally gotten under the skin of the enemy with his snark earlier, and he figured they really wanted him most, anyway).

Let me tell you: I fully expected my character to die/be killed.  I was honestly quite surprised when the GM decided to allow Compass to "come back", though the GM didn't let the other players know this for some time, allowing for some suspense.  When Compass was finally returned, he is now tormented by nightmares (you can read the whole summary in issue #377).

As the saying goes, Those who live by the die, die by the die.

There was a RPG rulebook published in 1999 called "Violence."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_%28role-playing_game%29

It had some rules regarding larger-than-d20 rolls:
When the rules call for a D40 (forty-sided die), instead roll a D4 and a D10
simultaneously; the number appearing on the D10 shall constitute the "ones" digit of
the required number. Subtract 1 from the D4 roll to generate the "tens" digit. A roll of
"00" shall be equivalent to "40". Example: A "1" appears on the D4, and an "8" on the
D10. Subtracting "1" from the D4 roll produces "0"; consequently, the numerical result
is "08", or just "8".

Similarly, when the rules call for a D60 roll, use a D6 and D10 simultaneously; for
a D80 roll, a D8 and D10; and for a D100 roll, two D10s.

D30 die-rolls can be generated in two ways. One is to roll a D6 and D10 simultaneously;
the D6 roll needs to be halved (rounding up), with one subtracted from the result
to produce the tens digit. Alternatively, it is possible to purchase thirty-sided dice, albeit
they are less commonly available than most polyhedral dice.