I agree that the "standard" is to treat them as 4th Level, but (OTOH), the rules are clear that only captured opponents (villains) that are turned into the authorities are what gain a character XP (other than donating $).

You could collect all the chihuahuas you want, but (as GM), I'd just laugh at you and calmly explain that they aren't "opponents" or "villains".

Now for RBTs, one can certainly make the argument that they're true adversaries (truly being "opponents") and now seems as good as any of a time to define exactly how much XP characters should get for them.

I've had to face such a thing before in my games.  Consider the Star-Devourer (from a published adventure, even if it was only from a magazine), as well as the giant tree creature from "In Broad Daylight" (from Monkey House).

I'd recommend doing something along the lines of 1/100th, if it is truly defeated (perhaps even somewhat defined, as getting a lucky KO in V&V should hardly count against something this massive).  Obviously it would be difficult to turn something this large over to the authorities (where would they put it?  On an island with all the other monsters? )

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear what page of the 2E rules that giant mecha is from?  I've looked through both the 1E and 2E rulebooks and can't find it (but it does seem familiar; I just can't place where I've seen it!).

I reckon ANYTHING can be used in and belong to V&V..... This is coming from a man who lives in Australia.... one of the weirdest places around

I used some of the ideas above with a character in Enter the Gene Pool. It makes sense that certain powers might have limited effevt on targets og a signigicantly large scale.

We talked about this some today (at our Star Wars session, before we began play) and one of my players threw out Death Touch (before I'd seen or read your post on that, Yp!).  Good catch!

I don't know about your way of doing Death Touch.  Firstly, it's a lot of work/math to figure (more than I want to do at the table, to be honest).  And secondly, the more saves you give the defender means all the more chance of them losing all their Hit Points and being knocked unconscious! (remember, all they have to do is fail one roll).

Re: that picture on p. 31, I'd looked at it a couple of times, but didn't realize that was a giant critter.  But I think you're right; it does look sort of like a Godzilla-like monster (before I'd thought it was just a paranormal crouching on a rooftop).

I'm still not clear on what "table for finding the "Range Multiplier" you're meaning.  I thought at first you meant the Range Modification chart on p. 23 (of Revised 2E), but I don't think that's the one you mean.  Looking at Size Change, there doesn't seem to be a Range column or table.

[Late Edit: I hadn't seen that PDF you'd attached before; I'm thinking that's the chart you're referring to.]

One thing to keep in mind with V&V and RBTs is that - despite the massive amount of Hit Points - these beasts are still very vulnerable to regular attacks, if you choose not to give them Invulnerability.

Personally, I think you should make some "standard" rules that apply to all RBTs.

Immunity to those powers we talked about (the players should simply have to figure out some other way to take them out) would be one.

Secondly, I'd give them all Invulnerability, probably less than the standard 3d10.  My suggestion would be 1d10, but make it per hit, rather than per turn.

Otherwise, any hero can get lucky with any roll, and when the RBT rolls a 01-05% on their knockout chance, they go down.  Not to mention when somebody hits them with a much larger blast or blow (perhaps 15+ points), they're going to have a much larger chance of dropping.  That's just not what you typically see in comics, movies, or the like with these massive beasties.

What I've typically done is also make a ruling that they can't be knocked out with the standard KO rules, at least not until X amount of damage is done.

Otherwise, you end up with really anti-climactic battles, where the first attack by Hero A drops King Kong with his first attack, perhaps only hitting for 3 points of damage.

Majestic wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 2:34am:


I ran into this problem with the module - In Broad Daylight at a Con I ran the game in. The pre-gen characters were the Indestructibles from the module. Every turn they would be successful on the KO rules. So the Giant Villain would make it wake up roll (Yes I cheated) and then be KO again.

Finally I declared it defeated in a rather easy battle.

Next time I will use an alternate KO rule for it. "Whenever the Giant Character loses more that half it remaining Hit Points in a single phase, it is KO".

This will make the battle last a while but will not force the players to eliminate every single HP to win. Hopefully making it a single phase will reward players for working together and coordinating attacks.

I just re-read a bit farther back.

In answer to Majestic's question about where would they keep such a RBT if captured.

V&V does not seem to have a shrink ray power as such.  I'd recomend having a variation of Shrinking with effect other (or Transformation > Shrinking > periodic reapplication).  There could be an entire miniature menangerie of these critters in the end

Just waiting to escape en masse 

So, if you can't use Paralysis Ray on a RBT because it's too big... should a P-Ray have a greater effect on a RST (really small thing)?

Just asking.

RAMBLE

So far I think it's been a great discussion.

One thing to consider is Gravity Control.  As per the RAW, the "area" of the Gravity controller isn't really defined, so it's one I think should be specifically spelled out.  Otherwise, any Gravity Control character can likely easily lock down any beast, no matter how large (unless their augmented Strength is super high).

Ypsilante, when you get a chance, could you post all of the "basic rules" you've come up with that you think should apply to RBTs?  I know it's still a work in progress, but I'm working on the latest version of our Supplemental Rules, and some of this has inspired me to address some of these issues.  If they end up getting covered in this document (down the road), no need to duplicate them.

OH GODS!!! Thank you Sooo MUCH!  I'm so using this!  My players after a 10-round grueling battle with the STAR DEVOURER finally managed to get a hit on it AND get it to fail one of its saving throws against Death Touch to down it... then "killed"/'Banished it back to its nether realms with Devitalization Ray... its power points are very low.  But the whole event left me feeling...less than satisfied.  These rules would have helped a lot!

As soon as I've finished running  a ... Certain Nazi filled adventure I'm testing... I'm so going to do a "Pacific Rim" style adventure where Doctor Apocalypse finds the 'Apocalypse Stone' on Easter Isle and unwittingly summons forth the Kaiju servitors of the Race of Other-dimensional god/demons who led him to his Gem Stone!  He has unwittingly let the 'weapons' of his imprisoned masters free to wreak Havoc and conquer in their name!  That cannot be allowed... "The EARTH BELONGS to APOCALYPSE!"  But even vast as his powers are...he must seek aid from self-styled 'heroes' to stop this Armageddon {he's certainly not going to risk himself overmuch!}.  Of course only he has the Giant Robot and Mecha Tech of sufficient power to fight these otherworldly conquerors... hehe... and OF COURSE... the Doctor is working an angle to take advantage of this... {Evil Grin!}   

Think I'll call this Series of Episodes - "Deal With the Devil..."

That sounds awesome, Thunderbolt! (I always loved Doctor Apocalypse). 

One of our most recent adventures ended up being called "Demon's Deal".

It *is* posted to FGU's site.

Display Name wrote on Jul 13^th, 2013 at 9:05pm:


That's the original version. The file attached to reply #56 is the revised version.


SuperWannabe wrote on Jul 14^th, 2013 at 3:11am:


I am going to go see that today. No doubt I'll be thinking of the PDF as well.

Yes, it's pre-production. The file on the FGU site is also pre-production. That's why I had Yad put "Experimental" on the cover, and why the text states that is it not yet canon and is for play testing. I plan to resubmit a revised file in a few weeks when Yad has his other work finished.

I don't have access to enough play-testers to get the big bugs out of this set of rules, so I put it up as a freebie to get it out in the hands of players everywhere. Since I updated it, I posted the revision here since it seems as though everyone who downloaded the file is on this forum.


Also: "Pacific Rim" was quite entertaining - not "Amazing" but worth the price of a matinee.

While watching it, I found my self doing two things:

1) Accurately predicting upcoming events (although I was surprised by Ron Perlman)
2) Thinking of the RBT rules and checking off the stuff in the movie that the game already covers


Just on a lark, I added a "Really Big Robot". It's inspired by certain robots in Pacific Rim. It may be totally out there, but it was fun to put together. Unfortunately, I don't have "Deathduel with the Destroyers" in front of me right now. I may make some changes once I re-read that adventure.

It's interesting, but somebody over on RPG.net just asked the question about what supers game was best for supers vs. monsters.

Just thought it was interesting, given the timing of this.

Probably someone who recently watched "Pacific Rim".
One strength of V&V is that it is not as "Complete" as many other games. Most games tell you exactly what you can and cannot do, while V&V [apparently] recognizes the wide-open nature of the super hero genre, and is itself pretty wide open.

I have read a bunch of games and have not found one yet that does giants as easily as V&V. I know there have been a couple of dedicated Kaiju Games, but I never got my hands on them. I don't know if they worked well with both "normal" and "Kaiju" scale characters. I know R Talsorian's "Mekton" can handle normal-scale and gigantic-scale, but it is a "Mecha" game at it heart, and the combat system can be frustrating (this is partially addressed in some expansions). Big Eyes, Small Mouth also does normal to huge. It's better than V&V in some ways, not as good in others - and also has hints of V&V throughout. It's also out of print (and 3rd edition is kinda "meh").

I was actually very surprised at how easy it was to create Kaiju (and Jaegers) using V&V - Big starships are also pretty easy to do. I have not yet tried a planet-sized character/mecha though. Actually, I have no desire to do a "Death Star", as it's just a planet with a big gun stuck to it and the ability to move - not all that hard to approximate in the V&V system.

I had this thought or so occur to me about RBTs:

Player 1 has Animal Control/Mind Control/Emotion Control/Telepathy.  How do these various powers interact with RBTs?

A group of players attempt to combine their Animal Control powers to seize control of a RBT.  How would this work?

A group of players attempt to combine their Emotion Control, Mind Control, and Animal Control powers (respectively).  How would *this* work?