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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) I have to know! (Read 11853 times)
Zenith Comics
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I have to know!
Mar 31st, 2010 at 5:36pm
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Okay I am sure this has been answered a million times, but indulge me please.

Why Most Wanted Vol 1 and 3 but no Vol 2?

What happened to it?

Is there a story behind this?
  
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dsumner
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #1 - Mar 31st, 2010 at 5:39pm
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From what I understand, Jeff Dee was working on it, when FGU quit publishing. But Jeff would be the best source of information.
  

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #2 - Apr 1st, 2010 at 1:40pm
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Who knows?  Perhaps it's among some of that older stuff that FGU has promised to reveal from the ancient vaults (like the markers for DD and Dr. A)?

That would be really cool, to finally get a Most Wanted 2.    Smiley
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #3 - Apr 1st, 2010 at 1:41pm
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Well it just seemed odd to me then and still now that you go Vol 1 and then Vol 3... like a mystery of the ancient world or something Wink
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #4 - Apr 1st, 2010 at 7:46pm
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dsumner wrote on Mar 31st, 2010 at 5:39pm:
From what I understand, Jeff Dee was working on it, when FGU quit publishing. But Jeff would be the best source of information. 


Correct.

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #5 - Apr 1st, 2010 at 10:48pm
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The goofiness is that the second volume to hit publication was called "Vol. 3".

Even if another volume was in the works, the second volume printed should have been called Vol. 2.

So the fact that someone was working on "Vol. 2" and it got canned doesn't really explain why the second volume published was called Vol. 3.

FGU could have switched the numbers pretty easily.
« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2010 at 10:49pm by Troy »  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #6 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 1:58am
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Exactly Troy!

That's the story I want to know.  Why wasn't Vol 3 released as Vol 2 then?
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #7 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 2:27pm
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Cuz otherwise it wouldn't be one of the great questions of the ancient world!    Cheesy
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #8 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 3:03pm
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Zenith Comics wrote on Apr 2nd, 2010 at 1:58am:
Exactly Troy!

That's the story I want to know.  Why wasn't Vol 3 released as Vol 2 then?


To understand completely, we would have to understand the FGU business model.  While I don't totally understand it all, I did find a blog done by the writer of "From the Depths of Space".

He stated that FGU gave work of a consignment basis.  He stated his Agent kept steering him to FGU and V&V.  He would pitch an idea and would be given the work on consignment from FGU.  If FGU expressed they weren't interested then he wouldn't start on it.

So following that logic, if Vol 2 was already assigned but hung up with editor and creator differences then Vol 3 continues on unabated and will be published as is.

So if this is the business model of FGU.  Then Scott couldn't change the Title of the submission without violating writer's rights (based on their mutual agreement for the work assignment).
  

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #9 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 3:11pm
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Pardon my French, but that seems rather ass-backwards to me.

If that's the case.

Wow.
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #10 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 3:21pm
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Zenith Comics wrote on Apr 2nd, 2010 at 3:11pm:
Pardon my French, but that seems rather ass-backwards to me.

If that's the case.

Wow. 

I'm with Aslan here. Publishers change titles all the time. ALL the time. And it this case it's simply changing the numeral after the word Most Wanted.
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #11 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 3:41pm
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Zenith Comics wrote on Apr 2nd, 2010 at 3:11pm:
Pardon my French, but that seems rather ass-backwards to me.

If that's the case.

Wow. 

As much as I love V&V  Kiss ... you are totally right. Totally.

And je ne parle fraincais.
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #12 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:14pm
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Yeah, I can't believe the title would have tied things up.  I've done professional writing for a few organizations before, and - even though you work with a contract - changing a word (or in this case, a number) in the title would/should never end up being a big deal.
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #13 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:30pm
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Even if someone else has a contract to paid from the sales of said title you were changing it to.

I work in a industry where all work is done by contract.  No contract, no work situation.  The most enduring lesson I have learn in contract law is:  If it is common sense then it violates the contract and the contract law behind it.

The most basic example:  If I enter a contract with you to write the Meanest Monsters Vol 2 and agree you will get 2% of the net profits.  Later as the publisher I decide to change a different work to Meanest Monsters Vol 2 and will rename yours to Meanest Monsters Vol 3.  Common Sense states that you would get the royalites from Vol 3.  Contract Law states that you would get royalites from Vol 2.

Now again I am not stating that FGU contract business exactly this way but if it did then changing the Title is not subject just to the publishers choice.
  

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #14 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:35pm
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The Cougar wrote on Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:30pm:
Even if someone else has a contract to paid from the sales of said title you were changing it to.

I work in a industry where all work is done by contract.No contract, no work situation.The most enduring lesson I have learn in contract law is:If it is common sense then it violates the contract and the contract law behind it.

The most basic example:If I enter a contract with you to write the Meanest Monsters Vol 2 and agree you will get 2% of the net profits.Later as the publisher I decide to change a different work to Meanest Monsters Vol 2 and will rename yours to Meanest Monsters Vol 3.Common Sense states that you would get the royalites from Vol 3.Contract Law states that you would get royalites from Vol 2.

Now again I am not stating that FGU contract business exactly this way but if it did then changing the Title is not subject just to the publishers choice. 


People redraft contracts with different titles all the time. It's not that complicated. It happens with books and magazines every day.

Plus, unless you read the contract between Troy Christensen and FGU about Most Wanted Vol. 3, it might be better not to speculate that changing the title wasn't an option.

Titles change in publishing all the time. Sometimes right before manuscripts go to print. Sometimes in reprint. It's not a hard work-around.


« Last Edit: Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:38pm by Troy »  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #15 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:40pm
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I just submitted my proposal for Most Wanted Vol. 45!

I want AslanC's head to explode wondering about  numbers 4-44. Wink
  

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #16 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:43pm
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Okay, Troy.  Since you know every reason why my answer is wrong then:

Because Scott didn't want to change it to Vol 2.

  

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #17 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:44pm
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John wrote on Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:40pm:
I just submitted my proposal for Most Wanted Vol. 45!

I want AslanC's head to explode wondering about  numbers 4-44. Wink


LOL

Thanks John, I needed that.
  

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #18 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:45pm
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The Cougar wrote on Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:43pm:
Okay, Troy.Since you know every reason why my answer is wrong then:

Because Scott didn't want to change it to Vol 2.


If you knew that all along, why the legal rigamarole?
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #19 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:51pm
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Roll Eyes  I like wearing a Target of my chest.  Cheesy
  

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #20 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:52pm
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The Cougar wrote on Apr 2nd, 2010 at 3:03pm:
To understand completely, we would have to understand the FGU business model.While I don't totally understand it all, I did find a blog done by the writer of "From the Depths of Space".

He stated that FGU gave work of a consignment basis.He stated his Agent kept steering him to FGU and V&V.He would pitch an idea and would be given the work on consignment from FGU.If FGU expressed they weren't interested then he wouldn't start on it.

So following that logic, if Vol 2 was already assigned but hung up with editor and creator differences then Vol 3 continues on unabated and will be published as is.

So if this is the business model of FGU.Then Scott couldn't change the Title of the submission without violating writer's rights (based on their mutual agreement for the work assignment). 

You could simply ask Scott B. over at FGU instead of extrapoating theories about contracts you haven't read. I mean, all the players involved are still alive. One of the greatest things about V&V is that the creators were so young at the time that 30 years later they're still young bucks.
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #21 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:54pm
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People will have tried.  Scott B. won't say.

That is why every V&V board has a long thread on guesses and no answer.
  

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #22 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 7:02pm
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The Cougar wrote on Apr 2nd, 2010 at 6:54pm:
People will have tried.Scott B. won't say.

That is why every V&V board has a long thread on guesses and no answer. 


To me that suggests that personal reasons were involved in naming one volume 3 even though it came out before volume 2 would have.

Seeing how about half of the people here seem to have a foot in publishing, the contractual argument doesn't jive.

So your sarcastic comment about Scott B. not wanting to change the tile actually makes more sense, even if it seems goofy.

Either way, I think it's better not to speculate about what a contract may or may not have prohibited without having read the contract.

No one's persecuting you, Cougar. You're a respected member of this board. No one's treating you like a Target.

Peace! Kiss
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #23 - Apr 2nd, 2010 at 7:04pm
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8675309 Jenni wrote on Apr 2nd, 2010 at 7:02pm:
No one's treating you like a Target.


Well that's not quite true, as I'm his GM, I may occasionally put a bullseye on his back .  Wink  Cheesy
  

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #24 - Apr 3rd, 2010 at 3:35am
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So essentially no one who knows is telling?

That the reason?
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #25 - Apr 3rd, 2010 at 7:46am
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Zenith Comics wrote on Apr 3rd, 2010 at 3:35am:
So essentially no one who knows is telling?

That the reason?


Yes.
  

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #26 - Apr 3rd, 2010 at 12:47pm
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Heh

Colour me disappointed. Sad
  
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Most Wanted: Plot Threads
Reply #27 - Apr 16th, 2010 at 2:00am
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Reality aside, here are a few ways to resolve the missing supplement in game terms.

The original Most Wanted (1983) and Vol. 3 (1985) are positioned as files from the government organization CHESS that are now available for use in a campaign. It stands to reason then that CHESS has Vol. 2 records but still keeps them classified. Perhaps the contents are too sensitive for even the GM to know!

Perhaps Most Wanted Vol. 2 actually was published in 1984 and remained available for centuries—until a future hero traveled back in time to prevent all of the villains who appeared in that volume from being born. The temporal paradox left Vol. 3 intact even with no evidence of Vol. 2.
« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2010 at 2:02am by polarboy »  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #28 - Apr 16th, 2010 at 8:38am
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Awesome Polarboy, I love it!!!
  

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Re: I have to know!
Reply #29 - Apr 16th, 2010 at 11:03am
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Oh come on, it's obvious!

FGU simply wanted to emulate the Traveling Wilburys, although this explanation also involves time travel, but hey, it's comics!
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #30 - Apr 24th, 2010 at 5:29pm
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Or it could be that Super-Crooks & Criminals (or Opponents Unlimited) are actually the Most Wanted, Volume 2, but the fact that they're such secretive, classified bad guys they decided to keep even the title mysterious!    Grin
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #31 - Apr 24th, 2010 at 6:08pm
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Most Wanted Volume 2 is the government's secret files on the PLAYER CHARACTERS. Like Project: Wideawake. The heroes are secretly observed and monitored by the government.

  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #32 - Apr 25th, 2010 at 10:42am
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Wow. You guys are still talking about this?

Here's the explanation.

1) The adventures published by FGU do not represent a single coherent continuity. Each individual author's adventures take place in their own private parallel world. None of it is "canon" as far as the core universe created by Jack Herman and myself is concerned.

2) Most Wanted was intended to be a series of books detailing villains from our core universe. Jack wrote MW1, and I was writing MW2.

3) FGU ceased to be a real company (no promotion, no convention appearances, no solicitation of distributors) before I finished MW2. I therefor stopped working on MW2.

4) MW3 was not supposed to be MW3. It does not contain any official information from the setting I shared with Jack. But FGU released it as MW3 anyway, without consulting us.

5) Why did FGU leave a "gap" for MW2? Because Scott Bizar is a lunatic. Despite his company dwindling to nothing, despite his refusal to relinquish the rights when he was no longer in any position to uphold his responsibilities as a publisher, and despite having insulted us creatively by releasing a book that craps all over our continuity, he still thought I would eventually finish MW2 and hand it over to him. He probably STILL believes that.

I am in the process of finishing up what would have been MW2 for release as a Living Legends book. No release date has been announced.

-Jeff Dee
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #33 - Apr 25th, 2010 at 1:46pm
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Jeff Dee wrote on Apr 25th, 2010 at 10:42am:
Wow. You guys are still talking about this?


Of course we're still talking about this. V&V is the greatest superhero game in history! So a mystery like the missing Most Wanted volume is a topic of discussion.
  
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Re: I have to know!
Reply #34 - Apr 25th, 2010 at 2:00pm
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How about we just drop this and move along?
  

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