Ironnerd wrote on Jul 15^th, 2015 at 3:33pm:


Thank you, sir.  I am enjoying this conversation, too.  I by no means think that any of us are doing things "right" or "wrong", it really comes down to interpretations on (sometimes vaguely written) rules.

Majestic that's a nice house rule.

Interestingly, I have a similar view of movement.

When a character jumps, he is limited to how far he can travel in a phase. When he runs, that limit is not in place.

I actually think the leaping rule is okay (could use a bit of buffing, but I do think it's sound... and I do like a little more anime feel to my games). I think the issue is the movement rule is incomplete.

I have been saying for a long time that V&V is 47 pages of near-perfection, and some have taken that to mean that I would never ever (under any circumstances) want to update, alter, or revise the rules. The point I have failed to make (and one I think I have mentioned somewhere in this forum) is that a modern RPG of any kind will run 150+ pages. That's three times the size of V&V. I think V&V is very good, but I also think it is incomplete - why else would I have messed about with Attack of the Really Big Thing?

To my point - I think what may be needed is a mechanic that limits how far a character can travel in a phase. "Simply" put: Divide total movement per turn by the number of phases available to the character (keep fractions). For fractions of an inch of movement, Option A works like healing where the player rolls d% vs the fraction of an inch. If the roll is = or > the fraction of an inch, the character may move one additional inch. Option B is like inventing where the character uses the whole number of movement and carries the fraction to the next phase and adds it to that phases movement.

Back to leaping - The character can jump Carry capy ÷ 100 inches per phase. He can jump a number of phases equal to Cary Capy ÷ Bodily Weight OR equal to his Inches Per Phase jumping rate, whichever is SMALLER.

"A character may jump slower than his maximum speed at will, but the number of phases he is airborne (see below) cannot exceed his rate per phase; at least not in normal gravity."

The example in the rules is an average guy with a cary capy of 175. He can jump 1.75" per phase. Assuming this guy weighted 100 lbs, he could jump for 1.75 phases, traveling 3.5 (17.5 feet) inches total with a running start. Without a running start he can jump 1.75" (or 8.75 feet), which is impressive, but reasonable for game-play. He can jump vertically 0.875" (or 4.375 feet) - again pretty impressive, but not insane.

If the same dud weighed 200 lb, he could only jump for 0.875 phases. If he had a body power that made him very light - say 50 lbs, he could still only jump 1.75 phases because his phases airborne cannot exceed rate per phase.

Edited:


sooo... easy right?

The nice thing is my players have never been jumpers... Only rarely have I had to employ Leaping or Falling rules, but my upcoming adventure features and flying "villain's lair", so falling may actually happen. I was thinking of putting in examples for leaping and falling in the adventure index.

Majestic makes a good point about my movement mechanic. It does not address the issue of less-Agile characters who still have high movement rates. That lower agility means that the character will have fewer actions per turn.

I know a lot of people see the phases as a tiny segment of time where the only thing that happens is player "X" does whatever it is he does. I know this because of posts made by a few other members of this forum and others. It's a completely logical way to look at the game, but I don't agree with it (yeah... super shocking, I know).

I pose the following counter-idea: The reason for phases is to help players simulate the non-stop kind of action we see in comic books. If a character has a low agility and gets 1 phase per turn, it takes 15 seconds for him to accomplish his action. He doesn't stand around doing nothing for 14 seconds than burst into action in the last second, it's just that he does fewer things in a given span of time. Likewise, if a character has high Agility and gets 8 action phases per turn, he does not neatly move every other second, he's doing stuff throughout the entire turn, but due to his high Agility, he can do more things (but at the cost of power and movement).

Now, the really important thing to ask yourself is what would the in-game effect be if characters had to accelerate like normal people. I think it would be more realistic, but I think it would add more complexity than fun. I'm willing to give it a try though, I just don't think I'm the one to come up with the new mechanic. If anyone does have an improved movement mechanic, post it and I'll read it over. If it makes sense, I'll give it a shot. If not, I'll ask for clarification. Just keep in mind, I'll see it as a house rule.

Since we are beginning to wander away from the topic, I would guess we all have a pretty good handle automatic weapons,  jumping and falling (and even basic movement). So we'll head off to the next topic.


so... Grappling, Gravity Control, or "Blowing Shit Up"?

FYI
I'm fine with continuing on in with the movement rule, but think it may deserve its own thread.

Edited:

Characters can change facing direction when it is not their action phase at a cost of 2 Power Points. Evasion and some powers (most notably Heightened Defense) imply that the character continues to move slightly during their enemies' attack phases.

I could see that as a guide for house-ruling that a character could move one inch per phase out of turn at a cost of > 2 Power Points.

Great point, polarboy!

And yeah, I can't say I see movement as a huge problem in my games, either.  I don't find it to be ideal (it's a little wonky), but I typically handwave it away as somewhat clunky game mechanics that allow the game to move along at a decent pace.

It's so weird how the simple stuff is run so many different ways.

Going into this I figured Falling, Leaping, and Moving were gonna be short discussions.

John wrote on Jul 25^th, 2015 at 10:18am:

I like this too and have been doing something similar in my PbP game. If someone is moving I divide how much they want to move in their action by 15 (the number of phases between attacks) and that is how much they move per phase. I think it is particularly useful with falling or someone trying to run/fly away. I feel that if I just allow the movement all *bam* on their action it is more like a limited teleportation.

John wrote on Jul 25^th, 2015 at 10:18am:


Thanks, John.  Glad you found it useful.

So, the RAW provides a simple rounded formula for falling. It's simple and close to reality but leaves too much out. I use a conversion chart that shows how many seconds a fall lasts for any given elevation (up to 60 seconds of falling), how fast the falling object is travelling at impact in both miles per hour and inches per turn, how much damage is incurred from the acceleration due to the fall alone and how long a human/humanoid falls for a given elevation at terminal velocity. You have to add the damage from the mass of the object from the brawling weapons table to get the whole amount at impact.  This is one of the sheets I have pinned to my GM screen.

This chart is also helpful when a PC or NPC attempts to intercept a falling teammate or enemy.

How do you manage the possibility to fly with weather control (like Storm Does)?
the speed, the maximum weight etc..

Actually, my new player group has a guy with weather control who flies by riding around on a little cloud. Since it's wind driven, I figured 120 mph max would be within the realm of comic-book-realism. Besides, it was an invented ability, so any faster than a Cessna 172 seemed too fast, and 120 MPH allows him to get someplace quickly, but also allows him to spend more inventing and training to get the little cloud to go faster. Of course, with his BC's he would fly a lot faster with "Flight". Again, it was an invention, so I limited the power (it takes a while to form the cloud, he can fall off, etc...).

With Storm, I would say she actually has "Flight". In the beginning she had "Low Self Control", meaning she had difficulty controller her flight abilities.

As for Carry Capy, that depends upon the kind of flight we are talking about. Superman flight is different from Storm flight, Dr. Fate flight (which is a spell), or even Iron Man flight (which is a device). You need to look into the character so see what suits him best.

There is nothing precise in the RAW about CC with Weather control. I would have to say with WX Control (especially) total CC is a wildcard. It all depends on how much wind the character can generate. It may also depend upon his costume since a "Flying Squirrel" costume would catch more air than standard spandex. I don't think the flying CC should exceed the normal CC since in the case of WX Control, the character is still basically carrying the load.

For this rule, I think some examples would be better than another rule. There are just too many variables to this kind of flight. As soon as you think you have it all pinned down, some guy is going to ask "What if I attach parachutes to the load?" or "What if BubbleMan surrounds the load in a big sphere to provide more surface area for the wind to push against?". When you have really broad rules, all this stuff becomes possible. I don't really want to dig up the "Lifted by Bubble" table to see if the 675 lb load can be lifted by a 10 foot diameter bubble riding a 37 mph updraft. But I WOULD like to see the maximum wind speed a character with WX power can generate (I would say equal to his move rate for simplicity).

Quote:

I totally agree


I think you're right about CC, and it makes me realize that i was not clear 
In fact when i asked about CC it was in terms of extra PC(s) lifted by the wind. How many more (N)PCs can be carried by those winds ? Maybe it should be dealt through the power level

Merteuil,

I was going to post something similar to Ironnerd's response but got distracted when She Who Must Be Obeyed (my lovely bride) decided I had something far more important to do.

He is spot on, the wind is the wind and there is plenty to go around. I think you are right and it would depend on the PR drain for the use of the power each time. That is the fairest way to go. The larger the area affected and the larger the difference between what the weather is and what the character wants to do determines the PR, so that is something you have to work out ahead of time as GM, even if you don't share it with the player until the time comes. That would add a little tension to combat if that is where it happens. I would also consider a save against either Int or AG or maybe both when trying to lift a group of objects, especially at first. Controlling a bunch of separate objects is much more difficult than controlling one. Like juggling three or four balls is more difficult than tossing one in the air and catching it.

In my experience, players tend to overestimate their powers so reigning them in once in a while adds realism to the role play.

Also, in rethinking my original post on carrying capacity, I think the player should be able to lift well more than their stated capacity in these terms but might even suffer a bit when trying to carry an object by hand. The added load would make flying harder to achieve due to the added mass. The aerodynamic properties of the object would play a large part in whether or not it can be lifted by wind.


Ironnerd wrote on Sep 13^th, 2015 at 9:03pm:


That would be underhanded, unexpected, dastardly and otherwise not nice.  I like it and heartily approve.

It would also work on all characters with flight. I always imagined flying takes some level of concentration, even if it is as unconscious as walking once the character is very experienced. There is no reason why wind shear wouldn't affect Ironman or Johnny Storm just as readily as Angel. Perhaps the Hulk leaping or Thor being pulled along by Mjolnir might push through it because of relative mass and air resistance, but a huge invisible downdraft would be troublesome to just about every other flying character.

Make sure you add falling damage equivalent to the speed at which the character is traveling both laterally and vertically when they the ground if you do it!

To me, Weather Control isn't Flight or Telekinesis.

If someone has Weather Control but doesn't have flight, then I let them move at normal speed by essentially hovering/walking on air as long as they spend an action per turn to manipulate the winds. No PR, it just requires vigilance because the winds are powerful, but fickle.

Fine manipulation like telekinesis isn't possible with the wind, although large objects can be moved with a tornado or a hurricanes.

That's how I roll.

RAMBLE 

I let characters use Weather Control indoors... but so much depends on the air mass and moisture content you're working with. If you're fighting in a house... your options are pretty limited unless the tap is running, the window or door is open, or it's dry in the house. If the tap is running, our Weather Controller can make fog, then rain, or snow. If they can get a door open then they can access the wind, but it's weaker in the house. Open up another window and you can have a current and now you can start to really manipulate the wind. Dry houses are easier to generate static and lightning in, but rain, snow ice and fog? Not so much.

Big, wet caverns with lots of openings to the air? Weather Control works essentially unchanged. Space station? Air and moisture are so carefully controlled and managed, your powers really hard to use unless you're in a large area.

In my game, Weather Control is all about location, location, location. And that means that even though it's a big, impressive power, an opponent can beat you down if you aren't careful.

That's how I roll.

RAMBLE

Razor_Fangs wrote on Oct 27^th, 2015 at 5:46pm:

It determines the NPC's experience level.  He then gets one roll on the Training bonus table for every experience level above one.

I guess that's possible...

What level is your highest Player-Character - and what kind of rolls did you make?

A level 21 NPC does not even show up on the chart until you have PC's at 12 (unless you rolled a lot of 24's on 4d6 - 0.8% chance)