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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What Rules Confuse You? (Read 20965 times)
Majestic
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #70 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 6:03pm
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I use that chart all the time.  There are times where it gives a result that just doesn't make sense (based on circumstances), so when that happens I simply roll again.

95% of the time it works really well, though.
  
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Ironnerd
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #71 - Oct 29th, 2015 at 9:24pm
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Razor_Fangs wrote on Oct 29th, 2015 at 2:48am:
Ironnerd wrote on Oct 28th, 2015 at 7:49pm:
I guess that's possible...

What level is your highest Player-Character - and what kind of rolls did you make?

A level 21 NPC does not even show up on the chart until you have PC's at 12 (unless you rolled a lot of 24's on 4d6 - 0.8% chance)


I rolled 21 something like four times, the indicated number was 15.

But still!


Rolling a 21 four times on 4d6 does not indicate an issue with the game; it indicates an issue with your dice. Although, such dice would be nice for Battletech they will only spell trouble for V&V. You want the dice that keep rolling 6 on 4d6 Smiley

Like Majestic, I use that table a lot, and it's usually an excellent guide. Once in a while you get some stray rolls, but 95% of the time, it works fine.

As a GM, you can ALWAYS cheat - it's one reason for the GM screen. If you get a roll that does not fit the situation - in this case a 21st level NPC facing 8th (or lower) level characters... CHEAT the roll! Or only use one high-level NPC against your group of PC's.

At my last gaming session (not V&V this month), we started discussing epic fail rolls for "Bosses". One or two crappy rolls by the GM turns a fearsome boss villain into a total candy-@$$, which sucks for both GM and players. So, remember, it's a GAME, bend those rules if you have to in order to make sure your players have a good time...

And maybe invest in a Dice Tower or Dice Boot... just sayin' Wink

« Last Edit: Oct 29th, 2015 at 9:26pm by Ironnerd »  

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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #72 - Oct 30th, 2015 at 9:13am
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This is interesting. I am only vaguely aware of the rules for randomly generating NPCS and Villians because I never do.


I always create my villains with a purpose in mind that fits the plot I am working on.

Random rolls are fine for some things but when it comes when it comes to major plot objects, I want total control
  
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Ironnerd
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #73 - Oct 30th, 2015 at 1:50pm
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Agreed, Klystron. The tables are great for incidental bad guys, but for the main Villain, you gotta get hands-on.
  

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Majestic
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #74 - Oct 31st, 2015 at 6:11pm
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Quote:
This is interesting. I am only vaguely aware of the rules for randomly generating NPCS and Villians because I never do.


I always create my villains with a purpose in mind that fits the plot I am working on.

Random rolls are fine for some things but when it comes when it comes to major plot objects, I want total control


I do too, Klystron.  And the table doesn't preclude that in the slightest.  All it does is give you what level to set the villain at, rather than arbitrarily picking one.  And the way the table is set up, it usually gives you a villain just a few levels higher than your highest level PC (which is perfect, as the GM will usually be focusing on multiple characters as well as the overall story and lots of other factors, while the players each get to focus on a single hero).

I don't think you're alone in hardly using that chart, btw.  I find it fascinating, really, how so much stuff in the back of rulebooks tend to get ignored or overlooked, while the stuff early on is (usually) adhered to.  I think it's simply human nature to do so, but as I said, I find it fascinating.  It makes me wonder, if that table was in the first few pages of the rulebook, how much more gravitas it would be given as part of the game.
  
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THE ONI
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #75 - Oct 31st, 2015 at 7:37pm
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So after reading this I tried rolling a random NPC Villain as per generation rules.

He was a 3 year old 5th level Middle Eastern with Htnd Int, Htnd Defense, Absorbtion, Paralysis Ray, Mind Control and Transmutation. He also rolled Reduced agility weakness and already had a 6 agility before I rolled the negative 6. He has zero Agility. The good news is due to his Training he has three extra inventions to work with. That's about as random as it gets I think.
  
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Majestic
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #76 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 1:04am
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Curious how you came to that age, Oni.  From what I can see, the minimum age you can get for a character with super powers is 15, and for a 5th level character, the lowest age you could get (assuming you rolled two 1s on 2d6) would be 19.

And you'd definitely want to ditch the Reduced Agility along with one of the super powers.
  
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THE ONI
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #77 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 9:50am
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Nice catch. I used the pedestrian table.

I may never use the NPC but if I do maybe I will keep the weakness.

Evil Genius type who was transferring his consciousness to a cloned body when some terrible mishap occurred. The ID transferred but they had to pull the clone body out too early.

Inventions can be a life support system, exo skeleton or armor. Hey he has fifteen inventing points to play with. Maybe I will even finish that Absorbtion Power Worshippers Thread. He absorbs Charisma plus level points of Agility from his Thralls.
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #78 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 10:52am
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The Infant Terrible
  

I am scary, very, very scary.
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #79 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 5:49pm
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THE ONI wrote on Oct 31st, 2015 at 7:37pm:
So after reading this I tried rolling a random NPC Villain as per generation rules.

He was a 3 year old 5th level Middle Eastern with Htnd Int, Htnd Defense, Absorbtion, Paralysis Ray, Mind Control and Transmutation. He also rolled Reduced agility weakness and already had a 6 agility before I rolled the negative 6. He has zero Agility. The good news is due to his Training he has three extra inventions to work with. That's about as random as it gets I think.


Dude!!!!

Run with it! What can you come up with???

(Could be a fun creative exercise for all of us)
  

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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #80 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 7:31pm
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A 3 year old middle eastern with a low enough agility that someone might have a hand up his a$$.

Sounds like Jeff Dunham's son of achmed puppet.

I kiiiilllll youuu!
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #81 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 4:22pm
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Since now i always rerolled age if it ended in pre-pubescent age (except for one alien, which i decided it only LOOKED as if it had 14 years), but i plan to dedicate myself in writing a reasonable background for a meta-child.

But for the moment i just enjoy my evil mastermind character, which i hope will make my players desperate.
  

Since the media took over more and more aggressively the american lifestyle, people started to forget about us and our deeds, until we became legends, pure fantasy in their collective imagination...
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #82 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 7:08pm
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I've long contended that random rolling inspires much more creativity, kind of forcing one into directions their mind might not ordinarily go.

@Klystron: I love it.  I saw Jeff Dunham live not that long ago.
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #83 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 9:25pm
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I think that random character creation is the only fair way to play this game, if you allow yourself to think a build plan you might break the game.

Well, technically it can still happen, but at least is completely luck-related.
  

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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #84 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 11:40am
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Razor Fangs

I think you are cutting yourself short on a great way of playing this game.

I write my adventures with specific ideas and plots in mind.  I am telling a story and when I introduce new players to the game, I tell them we are writing a comic book together.  I supply the setting and the major plot elements and they supply the dialogue, drama and flesh out the game.

I find the game much more enjoyable when I care about and can relate to the characters. Characters need to have a setting to live in and adversaries to struggle against in order to be more than just a diversion from the cares and troubles of normal life.

This is escapist fiction we are writing together.  I tend to look at it like music.  I am the composer and conductor, the players are the musicians that bring my composition to life and give it meaning.

Random rolls are fine for many things, but IMHO have only a small place in villain creation.  Random generation is my safety net when I get writer's block. I almost always modify what is generated, using that as a framework to fit into what I had in mind in the first place.

I prefer a long game with connected adventures rather than a bunch of singular episodes so I need my villains to fit into that scheme. I do use singular episodes as fillers, but almost always include elements from my long game, even if it is just foreshadowing in news items or other clues they players uncover as they go along.

Rather than break the game, I find it enhances the game beyond being a mere past-time.
  
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Majestic
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #85 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 3:52pm
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I tend to mostly do random generation, but for villains I will sometimes change out powers, or simply build them myself (for much the same reasons as Klystron articulated).

The game is really no more "broken" when doing this, as long as you have a fair and impartial GM (and most of us have been doing this for many decades).

In fact, believe it or not, I actually have a PC in my game that was completely and 100% designed (rather than rolled randomly), and it was all done according to RAW.  How?  A very high INT character decided to invent an android.  He then spent years slowly and carefully designing this android, which eventually became another PC.  He gave her all the powers and abilities he desired, cherry-picking from what he wanted.  Of course he worked with me as the GM to keep things balanced, too.
« Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2015 at 3:52pm by Majestic »  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #86 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 7:31pm
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Majestic wrote on Nov 3rd, 2015 at 3:52pm:
I tend to mostly do random generation, but for villains I will sometimes change out powers, or simply build them myself (for much the same reasons as Klystron articulated).


The only thing that i built for my Enslaver (that i have just postedin the appropriate section) are the powers that have to be decided with the GM.

I'm really satisfied about this character, he will prove to be a terrifying nemesis for my group of players.
  

Since the media took over more and more aggressively the american lifestyle, people started to forget about us and our deeds, until we became legends, pure fantasy in their collective imagination...
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Majestic
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #87 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 2:52pm
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One other note about random generation.  A number of times we've "rolled up" characters that ended up being too powerful.  Ones that the GM just said "absolutely NO WAY!".  My friend who has been playing with me for about 23 years still caries around I-Am-Phibian that met that criteria.  Another PC he rolled that would have been too strong he turned into a recurring villain in he campaign (Arachnea).
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #88 - Nov 4th, 2015 at 5:39pm
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Majestic wrote on Nov 4th, 2015 at 2:52pm:
One other note about random generation.  A number of times we've "rolled up" characters that ended up being too powerful.  Ones that the GM just said "absolutely NO WAY!".  My friend who has been playing with me for about 23 years still caries around I-Am-Phibian that met that criteria.  Another PC he rolled that would have been too strong he turned into a recurring villain in he campaign (Arachnea).


If players start being too strong i start building my villains Cool
  

Since the media took over more and more aggressively the american lifestyle, people started to forget about us and our deeds, until we became legends, pure fantasy in their collective imagination...
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #89 - Nov 6th, 2015 at 5:53pm
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I've seen a few that I'd bet you'd think twice about just beefing up villains.  An additional problem would also be that the other PCs would feel like puny wimps by comparison.  And they'd get frustrated having to face mega-villains all the time.
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #90 - Nov 8th, 2015 at 8:14pm
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Well, not all the time, but at every quest's climax (not necessarily if it's not action-centered) there must be a strong villain to threaten the party.

It's a golden rule that the Avengers movies are seriously lacking for example.
  

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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #91 - Nov 9th, 2015 at 6:08pm
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The Avengers movies at least have had Thanos, who sort of fits your bill (until they finally defeat him, of course).

In my campaign, I've still got Doctor Apocalypse, who in 25 years has never ever been beaten.
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #92 - Nov 10th, 2015 at 2:09am
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I'm scared as hell for what they can do to Thanos, in GotG already he seemed like a passive guy.

I hope to see him destroy Xandar at the beginning of GotG2 only to get the infinity gem back (fulfilling the Nova Corps destiny already)
« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2015 at 10:53am by Razor_Fangs »  

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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #93 - Dec 17th, 2015 at 12:30pm
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I want to see the purple-afro Magus in GotG2, but that probably won't happen!
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #94 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 2:12pm
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Have you ever been asked the question "can i teleport myself in the car (which is running) ?"
And how did you manage that ?
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #95 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 4:04pm
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I say if you can lift it, you can teleport it. And it would have the same movement it was going when teleported.

I would at least have them roll aglily to not crash it upon materializion.
  

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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #96 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 6:23pm
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merteuil wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 2:12pm:
Have you ever been asked the question "can i teleport myself in the car (which is running) ?"
And how did you manage that ?


I've never had it come up.  I'd tell the character to make a Power Stunt to be able to do it regularly (it's a house rule, and each non-inventing character can have three of them in my game), or - if it were just for a one-time use - I've got a formula for figuring out if a character can pull off a stunt like this.
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #97 - Mar 9th, 2016 at 3:10pm
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John wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 4:04pm:
I would at least have them roll aglily to not crash it upon materializion.


the PC has no speed before but has the the car's speed after; so i think it might apply some damage


Majestic wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 6:23pm:
I'd tell the character to make a Power Stunt to be able to do it regularly

i was searching for something like this.
I don't want to say it can't be done, but i think it misses some table or formula to allow it.

Majestic wrote on Mar 8th, 2016 at 6:23pm:
I've got a formula for figuring out if a character can pull off a stunt like this.

is it a formula for all of the stunts or something we need to adapt for each one ?
I assume it uses the characteristics ..
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #98 - Mar 9th, 2016 at 4:09pm
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I agree, I assumed the character was driving the car when he teleported himself and the car.
  

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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #99 - Mar 10th, 2016 at 11:09am
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'cause i was not clear at all.  Smiley
(I just read myself right now and i understand you assumed this way)
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #100 - Mar 10th, 2016 at 7:41pm
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Merteuil,

I also assumed the PC was asking about teleporting the car in which he/she was a passenger.
That I would have no problem so long as it was within their capabilities in the first place.

After reading your clarification, I would apply the same rule I use for all teleporters:

You have the same relative velocity when you emerge as when you started.
That means when you are falling and try to teleport close to the ground and fall the last few feet in an attempt to mitigate damage, whatever speed you were falling at when you teleported is how fast you are moving when you arrive just above the ground.

Applying this to your question: If a character is standing still relative to a vehicle moving at 70 mph, he/she will instantly accelerate to 70 mph as well.  Damage is calculated the same as for a fall.

To actually accomplish the feat, the PC would need to predict EXACTLY where the vehicle will be at the precise instant of materialization and then teleport to that spot.  Obviously, the closer the relative speeds, the easier the teleport should be.

I would be very careful about allowing this too easily. I think it should be a desperation move for a hero with no other choice and rewarded as such.

If pressed to make a ruling on the fly, I would say Agility minus 1 for every 5 mph difference in relative velocity plus 1 per experience level on a d100. Damage is incurred as falling and mitigated by 10% for every point between the required roll and the result.
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #101 - Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:40am
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merteuil wrote on Mar 9th, 2016 at 3:10pm:
is it a formula for all of the stunts or something we need to adapt for each one ?I assume it uses the characteristics ..


Part of why I didn't quote it originally is cause it might be hard to understand (as just a portion of a larger section on Inventing and Inspiration).  All I suppose one really needs to know is that to us, Inspiration Points = Inventing Points (for a non-inventor), so it would really come down to how many IPs the PC was willing to spend.

Make a spectacular maneuver. To perform an amazing
feat that a character could not ordinarily do with their
superpowers, the GM first determines which Basic
Characteristic is most appropriate. The character’s level is
then added, as well as a bonus of 10 for every Inspiration
Point spent. The resulting total is the number that the
character must roll equal to or under (on %) to succeed.
« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:40am by Majestic »  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #102 - Mar 11th, 2016 at 8:43am
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I also assumed the hero was teleporting the car along with him.
  

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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #103 - Mar 11th, 2016 at 5:14pm
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I have a question about the effects of fatigue on characters.

In section 3.6 it states that once a character is reduced to 0 Power points he is fatigued and then lists several effects, including: "The character's effective Carrying Capacity is cut to one-half." (emphasis added)

Immediately following the rules state that "All damage inflicted (except that which is caused by devices or items) is cut to one-half, rounded up."

My question is: is the damage being cut to one half based on the character's normal (non-fatigued) Carrying Capacity, or is it calculated from his effective Carrying Capacity and then cut in two? I lean more towards the first option, but can see the second.

Shadowdragon
  
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Re: What Rules Confuse You?
Reply #104 - Mar 12th, 2016 at 2:55am
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Quote:
If pressed to make a ruling on the fly, I would say Agility minus 1 for every 5 mph difference in relative velocity plus 1 per experience level on a d100. Damage is incurred as falling and mitigated by 10% for every point between the required roll and the result.

i think that's a very good way to deal with it !

Quote:
I would be very careful about allowing this too easily. I think it should be a desperation move for a hero with no other choice and rewarded as such


i totally agree !


Majestic wrote on Mar 11th, 2016 at 12:40am:
Make a spectacular maneuver. To perform an amazing
feat that a character could not ordinarily do with their
superpowers, the GM first determines which Basic
Characteristic is most appropriate. The character’s level is
then added, as well as a bonus of 10 for every Inspiration
Point spent. The resulting total is the number that the
character must roll equal to or under (on %) to succeed


i like it.  Smiley
and it can be applied in a lot of situations, cool !



thank you all for the responses !
it helps a lot Smiley
  
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